Eng Test tour of NZ, Nov 28 - Dec 18

[Durhamfootman]

not going so well, in this test, then

[alfie]

Not going to be a good finish to 2024 for England. Don't think there will be enough rain around to save them with two days left...and losing both openers in 6 overs wasn't the best start to the "chase" of 648

Some will no doubt go spare over this hammering ; but I don't think panic is altogether necessary. NZ are a good side (just beat India in India , let us not forget ) and this game has run for them from the start...with an arguably misguided England choice to send them in. England will be disappointed - whatever they say in public - to have been smashed like this instead of completing a whitewash ; but they can take solace in having won a series in NZ for the first time in 16 years. No mean achievement.

Did the "dead rubber syndrome" impact them ? You'd have to ask the players... It may well have played some part today , as the impossible task got larger and the tired bowlers laboured to little avail ; but I'm not sure it had much to do with the batting collapse yesterday. Think they were just undone by some excellent Kiwi bowling ; and one of those days when their ultra attacking system let them down spectacularly - as it does from time to time.

The most distressing thing today was probably the Stokes injury , after he'd worked so hard to come back. Probably wasn't a great idea for him to shoulder as much of the bowling load as he has done in this series ... and it got him in the end. The silver lining might be that he has no more Test duties until May and will now have to rest and not risk further damage in franchise/white ball cricket in the meantime.

[andy]

Your correct there is no need to panic, however England's record in dead rubber tests recently is horrendous..I get its harder to get up for a dead rubber, as a fan i find it harder to watch dead rubbers however as a professional athlete there should be no problem getting up for it....I mean the batsman bowling with a new ball is ridiclous...i know they were looking for a declaration but in that case keep the old ball and let the part timers bowl with that....harry brook bowling with a new ball to me was disrespectful and a complete waste of time...

Ben Stokes worries me he really does...he bowled way too many overs in this test especially when arguably Bashir should have bowled the majoirty of those overs, and the recurring hamstring is now a problem...however he may feel he needs to bowl and i understand that, the problem with Stokes is he isn't consistent enough to play as a batsman alone..before this series I would have been a fan of Stokes moving to 3 and reducing the bowling workload, as technique wise he can bat 3, however Bethell's emergence has thrown a spanner in those works...yes it's early days however Bethell looks techincally solid and there is a hell of a player there, so long term makes sense for the future that if anyone is going to bat 3 it would be him over Stokes. So what do you do with Stokes? If he can't bowl where is he going to bat? Root and Brook are going nowhere, Smith will come back into the side and Pope has been excellent this series with bat and gloves....Does Stokes open? Does smith open? It's quite clear now that Crawley needs time away not saying it's the end of his england career but I'd say he's not in England's best 7 batters right now. Smith has opened for Surrey and could do it, but maybe Stokes opens for a while and stops bowling because his body simply can't handle it...

[alfie]

You have summed up a lot of questions around the batting there , Andy : the trouble being too many options and none of them altogether appealing ; as they seem to involve a considerable risk of square pegs in round holes...

I don't think Stokes is an opener. I also don't think Bethell is a three (so far he's had three first innings knocks and all ended in the teens). Smith has started well as keeper/batsman at seven : do we really want them to mess around with his role and place in the order the way they did with Bairstow - to his eventual detriment ?

Way to go until May. I suspect they won't be changing too much , at least for the start of the home summer.

[andy]

I'm not convinced Stokes is an opener either, but I dont know where else he fits in if he dosen't bowl...his batting is hit and miss these days....long term Smith could open and Pope have the gloves...Pope seems to excel when he keeps dosen't look out of place with the gloves and we all know he is much better down the order.....to be honest regarding Bethell i think he looks fine at 3, i know it's early days but his technique is solid and he clearly has the talent, no idea why he is batting 7 for warwickshire!!

[Arthur Crabtree]

I think the next top seven will be predictable, injuries permitting: Crawley/Duckett/Pope/Root/Brook/Stokes/Smith. It's the rest that are harder to predict. Probably the four that played in the first two Tests, but there are a lot of bowlers to come back from injury.

[andy]

I think there will be changes they clearly want bethell and smith and pope all in there....Crawley notoriously dosent make runs pre test match summer and no runs here won't help...I think he will make way and one of bethell or Smith will end up opening...then we will have same old question as to how to balance the side as it's clear stokes clearly can't bowl much anymore if at all sadly

[backfootpunch]

The anger that Crawley showed when getting that dodgy LBW decision suggests he's pretty aware he was likely playing for his place in the side.

[andy]

He must surely feel the pressure he's had a horror winter, im still not sure how he's played 50+ tests!! The only thing i would say though is that it was a shocking lbw decision no way is that even clipping the stumps...however a man in form probably has that decision go his way

[sussexpob]

The anger that Crawley showed when getting that dodgy LBW decision suggests he's pretty aware he was likely playing for his place in the side.

Not sure what dodgy decision you are referring to, if hawkeye gets it wrong then I think its to Crawley's benefit, because it looked straighter to the naked eye than hawkeye had it .... either way, not sure I would say there is a clear error. It looked pretty out.

[sussexpob]

After Pakistan, I said I'd give Crawley a bit more time..... and I would have said a "bit more" would be another year or so... After this series, I think he has to go, and to be every considered again has to score mountains of runs. Matt Henry has seen through that defensive technical weakness, and just splattered it. Crawley has had absolutely no answer to it.... and get ready Zak, because every single new ball bowler in the world is seeing the tape and you've got more coming.

In his Bazball re-emergence, his hitting covered this up, but Henry has just hit that tight line and length, gave him nowt to hit, and watched him get himself out.

6 wickets for 10 runs vs Henry in the series..... I am reliably informed this is the worst performance a top order batter has ever had to a bowler over a 3 plus match series in history.

Was even lucky he survived the first ball, which he nearly inside edged into the timbers.

Time to move on...sorry Zak

[andy]

After Pakistan, I said I'd Crawley a bit more time..... and I would have said a "bit more" would be another year or so... After this series, I think he has to go, and to be every considered again has to score mountains of runs. Matt Henry has seen through that defensive technical weakness, and just splattered it. Crawley has had absolutely no answer to it.... and get ready Zak, because every single new ball bowler in the world is seeing the tape and you've got more coming.

6 wickets for 10 runs vs Henry in the series..... I am reliably informed this is the worst performance a top order batter has ever had to a bowler over a 3 plus match series in history.

Was even lucky he survived the first ball, which he nearly inside edged into the timbers.

He dosent even have a defensive technique to have found out...his method is see ball hit ball and it dosent work...one standout innings in a year simply isn't good enough...maybe 50 over cricket will be his calling but it is definitely time for someone else to have a go opening in test cricket...

[sussexpob]

He dosent even have a defensive technique to have found out...his method is see ball hit ball and it dosent work...one standout innings in a year simply isn't good enough...maybe 50 over cricket will be his calling but it is definitely time for someone else to have a go opening in test cricket...

Wouldnt surprise me if England try to move him down the order. Pope at 3, Bettie to open, Zak down at 6.

[andy]

I'm not saying this is right and I'm not saying I fully agree but I can see the England batting line up looking like this against Zimbabwe...if they play full strength

Duckett
Smith
Bethell
Root
Brook
Pope (wk)
Stokes (if fit and hopefully bowling)

[Arthur Crabtree]

Trying to find Crawley a position where none exists feels like a mistake. Surely if he's not good enough batting where he has for along while, then he's not deserving of a place in the side. At least not without some remedial work at a lower level.