Euro 2024

[mikesiva]

England 2-1 Slovakia
Spain 4-1 Georgia

Both sides came from 1-0 down to win, but in contrasting styles. One big difference is that Spain play the forward press better than England.

[bigfluffylemon]

Trying to look on the bright side, England have made it through to the quarters despite playing like complete turkeys. There's something to be said for getting through despite being below your best.

If they ever actually play anything close to their potential, sky's the limit.

[Durhamfootman]

in fairness to England, Mike, it's hard to play a forward press when 9 of the 10 outfield players are in their own third for most of the game

[Durhamfootman]

Maybe Southgate's problem is that he isn't committed enough to his preferred system. Maybe he needs to have 3 defensive mids protecting the back 4

or 4 defensive mids and go the whole hog in the QF. He might as well, it'll be his last match as England manager. Why go out with a bang, when a whimper will do?

[bigfluffylemon]

Amazingly Opta have us still as favourites to win, with a 50% chance of making the final.

That is in part due to being in the favourable half of the draw, but they still have us as 70:30 to beat Switzerland. If both teams play like they did this weekend, it won't even be close - Switzerland will thrash us.

[alfie]

Diabolical first half. Second was a lot better , to be fair : really should have had an equalizer much earlier (Foden mistimed run by a whisker meaning his tap in was ruled out for offside ; Kane missing an easy header) ; before Bellingham produced his magic "Platt trick" in the dying seconds ...

...But they shouldn't have needed that last minute miracle against a willing but limited Slovakia. Everyone just bags the manager - and obviously he has to wear criticism for some questionable selections and still too much conservatism in playing style ; but it is baffling why so many talented players are simply not carrying out the basics they do all the time for their clubs. Bellingham was dreadful , again, for most of the match , up to the goal. Hesitant , too many touches , losing the ball : why ? Foden is busy but has no end product : he seems scared to actually try and score. How often does Walker give the ball away like that normally ? They seem to be playing with the weight of the world on their shoulders and no real confidence in their own ability - which is sad. (And I guess this is the main grouch I would have with Southgate at this WC : in the past - whatever you might think about his tactics - he seemed to have his players showing belief ; which no longer seems to be the case. Maybe this escape will rekindle some ?)

Switzerland will be tough. Not world beaters perhaps but they did a number on Italy and will be full of confidence. England need a big step up. Going to miss Guehi in defence - wonder if we see a back three ?

[Durhamfootman]

in reality a back 3 would become a back 5..... with 2 defensive mids protecting them

7 at the back? It does sound very Southgate. It'll be his last match

[Arthur Crabtree]

Not following the competition beyond looking at the scores. And reading what people say here. Though what is happening looks from the outside like what always happens. An England side gets hyped and fans react badly when inflated expectation meets reality. They find their true level.

I read a comment btl in the Guardian that looks like an interesting counterbalance to the views I see on this thread. I have no way of knowing if it's valid.

Picture the scene. You become England football manager amid historically low expectations. Your country has just been eliminated by Iceland (!) from the European Championship - and at the most recent World Cup, it finished bottom (!!) of all UEFA qualifiers: with one point, achieved through a 0-0 draw with Costa Rica reserves.

Most people think you're just a stopgap, a caretaker. Few take you seriously; you're just another blazer, aren't you? But against Tunisia, a last minute winner suddenly gets a very un-England-like bandwagon going. You've done an incredible job getting the atmosphere just right; players, at last, are happy and relaxed pulling on the Three Lions. And you take one of the most limited squads England have ever sent to a World Cup all the way to the semi-finals: for just the second time overseas in its entire history.

At the European Championship, it gets even better. You're in charge of the best defence in the tournament; extraordinary given the constant shambles at the back which had gone on before you took the job. You beat Croatia, you beat Germany, Ukraine are thrashed... and for the first time in 55 years, you win a semi-final. Sadly though, in the final, you come up short against a team on a world record-breaking unbeaten run, which has dazzled throughout much of the tournament.

After losing on penalties, the county can't seem to forgive you. Even though you've taken it beyond its wildest dreams already; even though you were so, so close. A narrative forms about you which everyone seems to believe. Somehow, the team's achievements aren't because of you - but in spite of you. You're "too cautious, too defensive, too fearful, too scared" - and nobody seems to appreciate you.

At Molineux, in a country beset with political turmoil, even social division, this narrative turns into vicious, outright hatred. It shocks you to your very core. "What's the point?", you can't help thinking. "When we achieve all this - but apparently, I'm Public Enemy Number 1 regardless?"

Gareth Southgate has never been remotely the same man since that horrible, awful night. A night when an England team committed the obviously disgraceful crime of being palpably knackered, out on their feet in a game played, ludicrously, in mid-June. The Nations League messed up so many countries immediately post-Covid; yet England had some fans, horrible numbers, who just couldn't see the bigger picture.

England played very well at the World Cup and were very unlucky. But the die was cast now. Southgate took a lot of convincing to stay in the job - because really, no-one needs this level of hassle. The constant scrutiny of everything, the constant questioning, the implicit assumption that actually, he's no good at all, would destroy anyone: least of all someone as decent and gentle as he is.

And now? Now his brain's totally scrambled. Now, because he's only human, he's turned into a total caricature of himself. All leaders in high pressure jobs go mad after 7 years at most... and as being England manager is practically as high in pressure as it gets, he's no exception. Facing humiliation, he made no unenforced substitutions until incredibly late, and even left bringing Ivan Toney on until, what, the 92nd minute?!

Somehow, it works out. Your two main men get you out of jail, Toney is magnificent too, and your team ends up with its most fortuitous major tournament victory ever. But even in extra time, the moment you take the lead, you sit deep. And deeper. And deeper. Everything your players are suffering from is psychological; everything is in the mind. And it's stemming directly from you - because after taking dog's abuse for so long, you're too scared to be truly proactive and seize the opportunity this event still represents.

Every single football team at any level is an extension of its manager's personality. All Southgate's many qualities were to the fore in Russia and at the last Euros. All the negatives have taken over in recent months. You're just so scared. But frankly, when a man with his record and of his immense decency has been treated in such a way, that's not his problem.

It's ours. All of ours. This is the climate we've all created. How in the world we have the brass neck and sheer, unadulterated entitlement to expect anyone to succeed amid such a hideous backdrop, I have absolutely no idea.

[Arthur Crabtree]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ar ... t#comments

[sussexpob]

Not following the competition beyond looking at the scores. And reading what people say here. Though what is happening looks from the outside like what always happens. An England side gets hyped and fans react badly when inflated expectation meets reality. They find their true level

The irony in that statement is the fact that it hypes the actual pressure England are put under. If you want to see pressure put on a team, watch the Spanish or Argentinian media.... that is pressure. Southgate has it easy because he'd have already disappeared hiking in the woods by now in those countries.

Every team is under pressure, every team is tired after a long season... there is no excuse for being that rubbish.

[Durhamfootman]

Not for me either. These are not the problems of the last few months as suggested and neither were his first 7 years halcyon days.

That piece could have been written by Southgate's mother

He's become a stubborn, intransigent man. He should have gone after that final loss, because his reputation then would still have been pretty much intact. That loss perfectly demonstrated the flaw in his system and his tactical incompetence, but ever since that defeat he's doubled down on it, bloodymindedly determined to prove that he is right and everyone else is wrong. He's doing it again.

however, the good news is that one more defeat or one Euro's crown and he'll be gone. Don't hold your breath for the crown, btw

[Durhamfootman]

and I say that as someone who has, over the years of his tenure, repeatedly acknowledged his many qualities. He has always been a very decent man, he's always believed in giving young players a chance, the players like him, the FA like him, he's a safe pair of hands who will never be stung by a Sunday paper and a fake sheik

But he is tactically inept, he has demonstrated that over and over again. If things are going very wrong he doesn't see it, or if he does see it, doesn't know what to do about it. He could have brought in an assistant who is very astute, who could offer advice from the dug out on how to change things around when things are going wrong, but he didn't. In Southgate's world he is right and if he keeps doing it, over and over again, eventually everyone will see and be amazed by how right he is and how wrong they were. He didn't seem to be this stubborn a few years ago, but he is now. Maybe this is the legacy of the fan's reaction to that 4-0 defeat by Hungary at Molineux

[Durhamfootman]

Belgium out 1-0 to a very late own goal from Vertonghen

[Durhamfootman]

Bellingham being investigated by UEFA for his goal celebration in front of the Slovakia bench. I have a feeling Ronaldo once got a one match ban for something similar

now given what usually happens in major tournaments, England's star player will get suspended for the next match, England lose a game they would have lost anyway, star man gets the blame along with a healthy dose of racist abuse and England's 'we wuz robbed' mentality carries everyone over to the next tournament and the next debacle. Southgate gets his knighthood, because 'it wasn't his fault'

[Durhamfootman]

no.... I'm wrong. Ronaldo got a fine as did Diego 'Ow me leg ref' Simeone in the same game, so Bellingham will definitely get a ban