England tour of India, Jan 25 - March 11

[andy]

Brutally tough day for the bowlers.... unfortunately they're just not good enough....rehan will be good enough but he is 18 years old he will have bad days....leach is struggling with what looks to be a hamstring problem...no suprise after a back problem...and Hartley is a white ball specialist .....could be a long 5 tests...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Beginning to drift into the innings defeat zone.

[Durhamfootman]

Brutally tough day for the bowlers.... unfortunately they're just not good enough....rehan will be good enough but he is 18 years old he will have bad days....leach is struggling with what looks to be a hamstring problem...no suprise after a back problem...and Hartley is a white ball specialist .....could be a long 5 tests...

I'm pleased to see that Hartley has at least dragged things back from a disastrous start to his test career. I'm going to caveat the 'disastrous' start by reflecting that not many spinners get thrown the new ball on debut against the best batsmen in the world against spin. 2 wickets, a catch, a run out and some valuable runs in a valuable late order partnership.... and he managed to bring his economy rate down from 14 an over or whatever it was at one point to under 5, so I'm guessing, without seeing any of the match, that he's probably passed some sort of personality test. England have had other captains who would have pulled him out of the attack early, not gone back to him again and afterwards sent him to the back of the queue at the spin bowlers cab rank

[Durhamfootman]

and I also guess that it highlights the spinner development problem that the ECB has saddled county cricket with, when 2 of the 3 spinners in this match are very young or have played very little red ball cricket, with the back up in the squad in the same boat. The 3 spinners not called Leach have played 40 red ball matches between them and Hartley's development will not be helped by Lancs signing Lyon for the county season. Sadly this is true of a great many England qualified spinners. I suppose the surprise is that yet again Dawson didn't get a look in, so I imagine there is something going on there that has little to do with cricket.... or at least test cricket

[Durhamfootman]

Leach has played more than 4 times as many red ball matches as the other three combined. I always criticised Somerset for the raging turners they prepared over many seasons, but it did at least produce a reliable spinner for England

[sussexpob]

Yeah i didnt understand the celebrations from Hartley!! I also dont understand why he bowled more overs than Leach, I'd like to think unless he dramatically improves that we might see Anderson or Robinson in for the next test instead of him

Leach is carrying an injury...

[sussexpob]

Leach has played more than 4 times as many red ball matches as the other three combined. I always criticised Somerset for the raging turners they prepared over many seasons, but it did at least produce a reliable spinner for England

Dare I say, the English media and commentators go into a frenzy the minute there is a hint of turn in a pitch, and any pitch that produces some assistance for the spinners will get shelled for being some raging bunsen, when really its just a pretty normal pitch that helps spinners a little bit. As a consequence, we rarely see these types of pitches, and the batsman are crap at playing on them when they do, which gives the illusion that the pitch must be to blame. And then we dont get any bowlers come through because even those spinners who make it into sides in April end up being a specialist fielder most of the time, they just dont get the ball much because nothing helps them.

If memory serves, it was around the Flower peak that this all started. There was a period where Hampshire got a points deduction for producing wickets that did not conform to standard because they dared to help spinners, but meanwhile Gloucestershire were producing wickets that no one could buy a run on and 25 wickets a day falling over a long series of matches, and the ECB were keen to point out the 3 meters of seam movement and drastic uneven bounce were all part of the game, and the batsman were just being rubbish.

[sussexpob]

When I think back to England's greatest series wins in my lifetime, I think the early 2000s wins away in Asia are up there. It seems to me no great co-incidence that around 1999, we had a top class crop of overseas spinners in the county game... Murali, Saqlain (who IIRC averaged nearly single figures a wicket one year around this time), Kumble, Mushie.... and teams produced wickets to help them. Northants at the time produced wickets that would have been similar to Galle, and at one point they were playing Swann, Davies and Jon Brown in the same teams. Didn't hear anyone complain, and England ended up getting its best spinner in donkey's years out of those pitches.

It continued into the late 2000s, at which point people lamented how flat pitches had become and demanded green tops. But batsman growing up in that era would have played good spinners on helpful pitches. Facing up to Mushie in July at Hove was a seriously difficult prospect, Warne played a lot at Hampshire, Murali flicked between counties, Kaniera was at Essex for a long time....

It feels like a remote prospect of an England side beating a truly world class team in Asia nowadays, because we dont face any turning pitches in county batsmans development, and we dont produce enough quality spinners to bowl a side like India out cheaply enough to entertain a series win

[bigfluffylemon]

Agree with all that has been said here.

The BBC correspondent seems somewhat surprised that England are already in this position. To which I say, have you seen India at home and England playing in Asia in the last 10 years? We don't produce the spinners needed to win in these conditions.

[meninblue]

2 fours in over by Jack. Nice drives by Axar. Lead is now 190.

[meninblue]

Sir LBW for 87. Good innings this. 3 wickets for Joe.

Ind 436/8

Lead still om 190.

[meninblue]

Bowled. Duck for Jasprit. Back to back wickets.

436/9.

Joe 79/4.

[meninblue]

Rehan takes the final wicket.

England trail by 190.

Indian batsmen faced 120 overs. Wantwd to see them bat 150 but that has not happened this match.

[meninblue]

Maiden over start for India by Jasprit.

Ashwin to begin the 2nd over.

[meninblue]

Reverse sweep in 2nd over itself.

4 for Zak.

England 5/0.