The All New World Cup 2023 Thread.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England played a three match ODI series in India in 2017, which they lost 2-1, winning the dead fixture.

They lost the equivalent in India 2-1 in 2021.

Not many games played there, but even with England's best ever ODI side, which won the WC between these series, they didn't do well.

Doing poorly in this competition, in India, feels like a return to the average. Didn't everyone think in the last WC it was their big chance because it was at home?

I didn't expect them to do quite as badly. They reached a peak in '19, but they still made hard work of it at times. When Roy was injured they went into a run of defeats and needed countback to win the final. It seems like their renaissance was just ephemeral.

[andy]

Shamsi starting to get some tap after grabbing a couple of quick wickets

[Arthur Crabtree]

Pakistan could recover, but they look in a vulnerable spot.

[sussexpob]

England played a three match ODI series in India in 2017, which they lost 2-1, winning the dead fixture.

They lost the equivalent in India 2-1 in 2021.

Not many games played there, but even with England's best ever ODI side, which won the WC between these series, they didn't do well

As with any side playing away in that Covid era, I am thankful during those lockdown days the players went out and gave us something to watch, but the reality is as a sporting contest I think they can be ignored. England were in a strict quarantine for about 2 months by the time they got to the ODI series, and the situation with Covid in India at the time was disasterous (can remember the horrendous news stories of people dying in streets and what not).... I can imagine those boys must have been mentally exhausted, and not the circumstances that breeds elite level sporting performance.

As for 2016-17, this was the highest scoring series in ODI history. No team failed to make 300 in every innings... England lost, as India also wracked up runs, but after making some absolutely massive scores on Asian pitches where England had always failed, it felt like a real statement of sorts. England could, even in the hardest conditions vs the best team in the world, smash the ball to all parts.

[sussexpob]

Obviously England beat India at home and in the WC in 2019, so in the period of England's dominance of ODI cricket (between the end of both WCs) they held a slight edge over India in matches won... I guess you could say only by one extra match won, but this is India.... no one is going to dish out mega beating to them, they are themselves a top, top side

[andy]

So South Africa are chasing 271, you would think haris rauf is surely in the last chance saloon today....stunned he hasn't been dropped yet...

[sussexpob]

Shadab Khan has injured himself, but I guess the question is whether or not that is a concussion, because he banged his head on the turf. Maybe see a substitute come on and play

[andy]

Bavuma has got himself a start....if he ever needed a big score it's today.....having a poor tournament and Hendrick's has shown form...bavuma needs a day out

[mikesiva]

Pakistan 270 all out

Saud 52
Babar 50

Shamsi 4-60
Jansen 3-43

The left arm wrist spinner did the damage.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I was thinking Jansen's WC recalled Lance Klusener in '99, but looking at his stats, Klusener only made a couple of fifties. Memory fail.

[andy]

South Africa 4 down, markram has to bat through now they can't afford him to get out too

[Arthur Crabtree]

Well ahead of the rate though.

[sussexpob]

I was thinking Jansen's WC recalled Lance Klusener in '99, but looking at his stats, Klusener only made a couple of fifties. Memory fail.

Its a pretty sound comparison, tbf. Comparing ODI realities 25 years apart isn't worthwhile, because the game has changed so much - but boil it all down to a role they both play, and its basically the same. If the top order make runs, they come in earlier and try to push on the score. If the innings needs stability, they come in towards the end and try to biff a rapid fire 20-30.....and if anything, its Jansen's WC that is the inferior of the two. Klusener 9 matches, 2 x 50 - Jansen 6 matches for 1... Klusener scored more runs per match than Jansen has...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Ah, good!

[sussexpob]

I think there is a genuine case to consider Klusener as one of the most influential cricketers in the history of the game, and without question, the most influential limited overs cricketer in the history of the game. It feels like modern ODI batting, that turned into T20, and that is now increasingly an approach in the test game, all started with him. Before Klusener, you would say an aggressive batter was someone willing to attempt an orthodox shot to a risky ball more often than not, but after that 1999 WC players really started to pick the heaviest bat and trust power a lot more over timing.

Klusener's batting at the time seemed like it had arrived from another planet. Guys like GIlchrist were "sloggers" and had SRs in the mid to high 80s. Jayasuriya was known as crickets pinch hitting slogger, and he also batted in the high 80s at the time.

Kluseners SR that tournament was nearly 130..... quite mad in the context of that era.