4th Test England v Pakistan, The Oval, Aug 11-15

[Dr Cricket]

pretty certain the english press act like he is a great player and not he will become one.
really the most annoying aspect is that for Stokes poor batting and poor bowling get overlooked.

barring that huge century in SA, Stokes averages about mid 20 with the bat and close to 40 with the ball.
the bowling fiqures are ok if Stokes was a proper batsman and what i seen Stokes with the bat he isn't a proper batsman and should be batting in the top 6, an number 7 bat like Ali.
really only one of Ali or Stokes should play not both of them.

Barring a few Test matches Stokes hasn't done anything in the Test cricket.

[backfootpunch]

If you discount the games where he has batted 8 and opened the batting moeen must have a pretty good record

I'd imagine his average is very good in england but bad elsewhere

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting
averages less than 20 as an opener
21 at 6
108 at 7
28 at 8
37 at 9.

never had a decent record barring 7.
although does average 41 in england but really he will not be consistent enough to suggest he is a viable batting option in the top 7.

really number 7 the best spot and then he got Woakes/Stokes pushing for it so only really one or two of them can play.

The sample size is too small to draw any conclusions really

Moeen is showing a big improvement atm, if he continues at his current standard this summer then 5 or 6 could be feasible

He has developed a nack of scoring tough runs which is a good sign, his average at this stage is skewed by him regularly coming in and giving away his wicket searching for quick runs

[Making_Splinters]

Mo Ali taking his batting record to Stokes level now. A 5-for with the ball, and he will probably have a better career record in both formats.

Well, he's not out at present, so that's not a true reflection of what his average will be.

Much like Stokes, Ali needs to be in the middle order to get the best out of his batting. It would be entirely feasible to have Stokes and Ali at 5 / 6 without weakening the batting bringing Rashid and Woakes at 7 / 8.

If he gets out now, his batting average is still slightly higher.

But Ali is useless..... and Stokes is a legend.

It's not really a fair comparison to be honest there, Sussex. Both have about the same record with the bat, the odd very good innings and a lot of average ones.

The difference is, Ali is playing in the side as the front line spinner. Stokes is a fourth pace bowler.

Stokes' bowling is good enough to have the role he has been given, Ali's is definitely not.

If Ali was playing as a batsman and second spinner, people would likely look a lot more kindly on his career thus far. Sadly for both him and England, he isn't.

[Dr Cricket]

But making splinters Stokes batting not good enough for the fourth pace option though.

[Dr Cricket]

If you discount the games where he has batted 8 and opened the batting moeen must have a pretty good record

I'd imagine his average is very good in england but bad elsewhere

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting
averages less than 20 as an opener
21 at 6
108 at 7
28 at 8
37 at 9.

never had a decent record barring 7.
although does average 41 in england but really he will not be consistent enough to suggest he is a viable batting option in the top 7.

really number 7 the best spot and then he got Woakes/Stokes pushing for it so only really one or two of them can play.

The sample size is too small to draw any conclusions really

Moeen is showing a big improvement atm, if he continues at his current standard this summer then 5 or 6 could be feasible

He has developed a nack of scoring tough runs which is a good sign, his average at this stage is skewed by him regularly coming in and giving away his wicket searching for quick runs

good point but will be hard to get him in the top 6 unless Stokes moves back down at 8 or get dropped.

[Making_Splinters]

Stokes is easily good enough with the bat to be playing as the fourth bowler in the side, a role that would usually be batting at 7. Whether or not he will develop as a batsman into someone who merits a place in the top 6 is up for debate.

[backfootpunch]

pretty certain the english press act like he is a great player and not he will become one.
really the most annoying aspect is that for Stokes poor batting and poor bowling get overlooked.

barring that huge century in SA, Stokes averages about mid 20 with the bat and close to 40 with the ball.
the bowling fiqures are ok if Stokes was a proper batsman and what i seen Stokes with the bat he isn't a proper batsman and should be batting in the top 6, an number 7 bat like Ali.
really only one of Ali or Stokes should play not both of them.

Barring a few Test matches Stokes hasn't done anything in the Test cricket.

I dont read the press tbh, I just watch the games but most on here and all my mates think stokes is far from the finished product

He contributes most games whether it be with bat, ball or the field

He just hasn't got the consistency atm to contribute with all 3

But he can win games out of nothing like vs new zealand

And has shown he can take important wickets, something always happens when he is involved

His stats don't tell the full story imo and the people who pick the team agree with me

[Dr Cricket]

Needs to show it more in the international format and with his hard hands technique hard to see him scoring many runs when the ball moves.

So don't know where the easily good enough to bat come from if he average low 30 with the bats and has only really scored runs in 3 innings.
9 50 plus scores in 43 innings is a poor return for a top 6 bat.

[Making_Splinters]

Shame Woakes misses out on his 50, but a very good knock to get England up towards the 300 mark.

[backfootpunch]

If you discount the games where he has batted 8 and opened the batting moeen must have a pretty good record

I'd imagine his average is very good in england but bad elsewhere

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting
averages less than 20 as an opener
21 at 6
108 at 7
28 at 8
37 at 9.

never had a decent record barring 7.
although does average 41 in england but really he will not be consistent enough to suggest he is a viable batting option in the top 7.

really number 7 the best spot and then he got Woakes/Stokes pushing for it so only really one or two of them can play.

The sample size is too small to draw any conclusions really

Moeen is showing a big improvement atm, if he continues at his current standard this summer then 5 or 6 could be feasible

He has developed a nack of scoring tough runs which is a good sign, his average at this stage is skewed by him regularly coming in and giving away his wicket searching for quick runs

good point but will be hard to get him in the top 6 unless Stokes moves back down at 8 or get dropped.

I think moeen will bat in the top 6 this winter

Vince or ballance will be dropped and moeen will bat 5 or 6

[Dr Cricket]

that this winter, hard for that team to be used outside asia though.
Really only one of Ali/Stokes could be in the team.

[Making_Splinters]

Needs to show it more in the international format and with his hard hands technique hard to see him scoring many runs when the ball moves.

So don't know where the easily good enough to bat come from if he average low 30 with the bats and has only really scored runs in 3 innings.
9 50 plus scores in 43 innings is a poor return for a top 6 bat.

Well, if you read what was written you'd note the caveat that in most sides he'd be batting 7 where he is easily good enough to be doing so.

The jury is out on whether or not he will make it in the upper order, it's a bit of a pain for both him and Ali that they really need to be about 6 but can't both be.

[hopeforthebest]

It does appear that batsmen don't feel those very fine edges. I suppose it's not really surprising as bat handles are sprung to act as shock absorbers they have about 3 rubbers on the handle and they wear thick gloves.

[backfootpunch]

Broads got a poor decision there

Always looked like it would miss

Actually shaved the very outside of leg but stil

Classic case of the umpire giving out a bowler

[hopeforthebest]

Another VERY marginal LBW decision, this series has been full of them.