Racism in English football?

[Gingerfinch]

So mike, are you saying Sol should have been made captain in 1997 when he first came into the team, as he retired/was dropped in 2007? That would be 10 years. No? So, maybe in 2001 when Becks got the job? He may have had a case, as could G Neville, who was a regular and a natural leader. Maybe Neville should claim Southern bias over the cockney Beckham?

Sorry, this story is for the chip shop.

[budgetmeansbudget]

He was probably advised to put that comment in the book so it would cause a stir get everyone talking about it and sell more copies. I doubt he gave it a minutes thought at the time and to me seemed to have the personality of someone who didn't really want the captaincy anyway.

[SaintPowelly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26383249

What complete twaddle.

'Sol Campbell has claimed he would have been "England captain for more than 10 years" if he had been born white. The former England defender makes the claims in an authorised biography serialised by the Sunday Times. "I believe if I was white, I would have been England captain for more than 10 years - it's as simple as that," said the 39-year-old, who won 73 full caps, including three as captain.'

I totally agree with Sol....

John Terry was an England idol who was captain for many games, despite controversies surrounding him. Sol was a much less controversial figure, but he would never be given the captaincy...the only conclusion I could draw back then was because he was black.

Don't talk utter b*llocks Mike, you are being racist now.

[sussexpob]

He was never going to replace Shearer in the 90's as a young person breaking in, is he mental?

After Shearer retired in 2000, just about the same time that the natural leader of men, Mr Campbell, lied to his club and signed for their rivals under quite a lot of widespread criticism, and in a year where he never got fit..... Beckham became captain, smashed in a 30 yard screamer to lead England to a world cup, and no one looked back.

At Arsenal he also suffered "personal issues", saw two great years after which his form tailed off, he was given holidays in season to battle what was feared was serious depression, had his manager speak publically about his personall issues, and was eventually farmed out on the basis that he needed to find a change in his life and rebuild his career..... so did he really believe at this time Eriksson wasnt making him captain because of his skin?

After that he played for Portsmouth and Notts County and his career tailed off completely, and he no longer really justified national selection....

I hope his old managers sue him for branding them a racist, this is a very damaging and badly advised comment that paints the sport, the national association, his managers and the country in general in a very bad light.

[Durhamfootman]

He was probably advised to put that comment in the book so it would cause a stir get everyone talking about it and sell more copies.

[mikesiva]

Sol Campbell in today's Sunday Times....

Lord Triesman, on leaving his post as FA Chairman in 2011: "It is more likely if he was white that he would have captained England on more occasions...I think there is an assumption of a type of person who should captain England."

"The more caps I won, the further away I seemed to be pushed from becoming captain. I played well, acted honourably on and off the field, but there was little recognition. Owen was a fantastic forward but nowhere near being a captain. It was embarrassing. I kept asking myself: what have I done? I've asked myself many times why I wasn't (made captain). I keep coming up with the same answer. It was the colour of my skin."

Campbell says the football hierarchy needs to "change its mentality, get more people from other backgrounds, black and Indian, and get them involved in the leadership of the game. A lot of black players are now playing for England and if want to represent that properly you've got to change the backroom staff to have a bit more colour in there."

Yet another reason why I prefer club football to the national team....

While clubs are reluctant to hire football managers, and haven't quite reached the promised land yet, they seem to be some way ahead of the national team. Sol Campbell captained Arsenal, after all.

[SaintPowelly]

Sol Campbell captained Arsenal, after all.

Again chatting more crap to justify your racism :

Tony Adams Sep 1996-May 2002
Patrick Viera July 2002-July 2005
Thierry Henry July 2005-June 2007
William Gallas July 2007-Nov 2008
Cesc Fabregas Nov 2008- August 2011

[sussexpob]

"The more caps I won, the further away I seemed to be pushed from becoming captain. I played well, acted honourably on and off the field, but there was little recognition. Owen was a fantastic forward but nowhere near being a captain. It was embarrassing. I kept asking myself: what have I done? I've asked myself many times why I wasn't (made captain). I keep coming up with the same answer. It was the colour of my skin."

Owen was made captain in Beckham's injury absence, and only played in two matches as captain that Sol Campbell was not injured for. Beckham got the injury about this time of the season in 2002 when Ducsher broke his foot in the Champions League match, and Campbell at the time was not fit for the England friendly as the last home warm up before the World Cup and England ended up naming quite an experimental squad with a 21 year old Gerrard, 21 year old Darius Vassell, 23 year old K. Dyer, 21 year old Wayne Bridge, young Ashley Cole and Lampard in the squad(none where England certainties at the time and still very young).... Owen was therefore possibly the only certainty in his position with international experiencein the squad, the huge exception being Gary Neville.

In the lead up to the World Cup England played twice in Asia with Beckham's fitness looking like he would make the World Cup. England therefore went for continuity, and Campbell played two world cup warm ups in the side captained by Owen. A week later Beckham came back and took over.

Owen captained another 5 games, and in none of these Campbell was fit.... by this time Seaman/Keown/Southgate basically were finished, and as the start of a new 4 year cycle England picked another few experimental sides, and Owen was second only to Scholes for fit and experienced players, and Scholes, a much known media recluse, oclearly didnt want the job

[sussexpob]

In fact when you consider that the possible captains in the side were....

Beckham - Who had captained at various temporary stages for the two biggest clubs in World football.....
Lampard - Captained in a winning Champions League Final...
Gerrard - Captained in a Champions League winning fina....
G.Neville... Captained in a Champions League winning final, and in 3 successful Man United League winning sides......

Sol Campbell.... Captained Spurs to 7th place, a season in which he told the club he would sign a new contract, then left to join their rivals..... got to a league cup final.

Really is harsh with that pedigree

[Alviro Patterson]

Sol Campbell in today's Sunday Times....

Lord Triesman, on leaving his post as FA Chairman in 2011: "It is more likely if he was white that he would have captained England on more occasions...I think there is an assumption of a type of person who should captain England."

"The more caps I won, the further away I seemed to be pushed from becoming captain. I played well, acted honourably on and off the field, but there was little recognition. Owen was a fantastic forward but nowhere near being a captain. It was embarrassing. I kept asking myself: what have I done? I've asked myself many times why I wasn't (made captain). I keep coming up with the same answer. It was the colour of my skin."

Campbell says the football hierarchy needs to "change its mentality, get more people from other backgrounds, black and Indian, and get them involved in the leadership of the game. A lot of black players are now playing for England and if want to represent that properly you've got to change the backroom staff to have a bit more colour in there."

Yet another reason why I prefer club football to the national team....

While clubs are reluctant to hire football managers, and haven't quite reached the promised land yet, they seem to be some way ahead of the national team. Sol Campbell captained Arsenal, after all.

Based on what exactly?

Seem to remember Paul Ince and Rio Ferdinand captaining England in the past, whilst Noel Blake is head coach of the England u19s and highly regarded too.

[Gingerfinch]

A complete waste of time and money.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... be-3231471

[budgetmeansbudget]

A complete waste of time and money.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... be-3231471

I'm not sure there's an FA elsewhere in the world doing more to eradicate racism in the game.

[mikesiva]

"More than half the professional footballers in England have witnessed or suffered racist abuse in stadiums, a survey has revealed. The poll of 200 players in the Premier League and Football League was carried out by football’s anti-discrimination group Kick It Out. The players, of whom a third were from black and ethnic minority backgrounds, overwhelmingly backed bringing the “Rooney rule” into English football to give black coaches greater opportunities. The survey follows high-profile criticism of Kick It Out by players such as Jason Roberts and Rio Ferdinand after the John Terry and Luis Suarez racist abuse cases. Results of the poll suggest 57 per cent of players have witnessed, and 24 per cent have been subjected to, racist abuse at matches. Seven per cent have been subjected to, and 20 per cent have witnessed, racist abuse on the training ground or in the dressing room. In addition, 62 per cent of players felt mandatory shortlisting should be in place for black and minority ethnic candidates applying for coaching or administration jobs."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 98247.html

It is time the English leagues followed what the Americans have done in the NFL and the NBA, and bring in the Rooney Rule. Under the Rooney Rule, it is required that every shortlist MUST have a black candidate. It doesn't say that such black candidate MUST be employed, but that every shortlist should include a black candidate. That has helped to transform the face of coaching in the NFL and the NBA, and as a result, between a half and a third of coaches in those two leagues are now black, as opposed to the 90-odd percent white faces that existed before. When black candidates are shortlisted, then racist owners will actually see that black candidates are not ignorant and incapable of taking on managerial jobs. That's what happened to the racist owners who used to own clubs in the NBA and the NFL. The Rooney Rule helped to educate them, by helping them to actually talk to black people for a change, and finding out what was in their minds, instead of just their feet and hands....

'Fourteen NBA head coaches are black, tying the 30-team league's own record for the most ever in a sport. "I didn't even know that it's half, which is probably a better sign," the Boston coach said recently. "I don't think it's a big deal any more, especially in our league and I think we probably set the tone in all leagues in that way." He's right. The NBA already held the record for most black coaches when it had 14 in 2002. It briefly surpassed that total this season for about 24 hours in March after Mike Woodson was promoted in New York and before Nate McMillan was fired in Portland. McMillian was replaced by Kaleb Canales -- who became the first Mexican-American coach. "I'm glad that it has escalated to the point that it's at where so many have opportunities, but the NBA with David Stern have been unbelievable as far as minorities getting an opportunity to coach and go into front offices," Cleveland coach Byron Scott said. "I think the NBA is so much farther ahead than any other major sport." Besides Rivers, Scott and Woodson, the NBA's other black coaches are Mike Brown (Los Angeles Lakers), Avery Johnson (New Jersey), Dwane Casey (Toronto), Paul Silas (Charlotte), Lionel Hollins (Memphis), Tyrone Corbin (Utah), Larry Drew (Atlanta), Alvin Gentry (Phoenix), Monty Williams (New Orleans), Mark Jackson (Golden State) and Keith Smart (Sacramento). A half-dozen will be coaching in the playoffs starting this weekend. Woodson carries an interim title in New York after taking over for Mike D'Antoni on March 14, and Silas is finishing one of the worst seasons in NBA history, so the number could decrease next season. But Hollins thinks blacks will continue to be among the top candidates for whatever jobs come open. "There's 30 teams, so there are more jobs out there," Hollins said. "As we move forward, more general managers are getting to know African-American assistant coaches and former players that have come into coaching. It shows that we are coaches and not former players. We've transferred from the one side to the other. I never want to be viewed a former player anymore. I'm a coach. I've been a coach for a long time. They are starting to understand that (minority coaches) can organize and prepare and motivate and teach just as well as anybody else. I think our whole society is learning that."'

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/04/26/mino ... es-NBA.ap/

[sussexpob]

When black candidates are shortlisted, then racist owners will actually see that black candidates are not ignorant and incapable of taking on managerial jobs.

Just out of interest, how many of the owners are white, and how many of the owners are racist? Your argument is they are racist because they havent hired a black coach, but in reality hardly any owners are white in the top level now, and they have hardly empowered fellow minorities. Might just be because they pick the right candidate regardless of skin colour??

Who is your racist owners?

The Glazer's at Man United?? - appointed Ton Dungy before the Rooney Rule at the Bucs, and who was the first black superbowl winning coach? (Before Rooney, not after?)

Abramovich?? The son of two Jewish Lithuanian holocaust survivors, and who pumped billions of his own money into helping the previously overlooked and heavily excluded ethnic minorities of Chukotka?

Maybe Arsenal? Who's main majority share holder is an Uzbek muslim who married someone Jewish, and another large shareholder being of Persian origin.

Fulham?? With their Pakistani owner and black manager?

Cardiff? With their Malay-Chinese owner? Or their previous Lebonese owner?

Tottenham? A club seemingly very proud of their links to minority culture, and who have a Jewish owner?

Norwich?? With their black manager?

Newcastle??? The club who's owner gave said black manager his first opportunity in football?

Man City???? Who are owned by Middle Eastern Arabs???

Aston Villa??? Randy Lerner also gave Romeo Crenell the head coaching job at Cleveland BEFORE the Rooney Rule

Hull City??? Egyptian Owner

Liverpool??? Own the Orlando Magic, gave various coaching roles to black coaches (from 1990, BEFORE the Rooney Rule).....

West Brom??? The current chairman appointed Cyrille Regis to manage them in 2000, last time I looked he was black, and I think it was Pearce's first manager appointment.

West Ham?? Owned by two ethnic minority English owners.

N

[sussexpob]

That has helped to transform the face of coaching in the NFL and the NBA, and as a result, between a half and a third of coaches in those two leagues are now black, as opposed to the 90-odd percent white faces that existed before. When black candidates are shortlisted, then racist owners will actually see that black candidates are not ignorant and incapable of taking on managerial jobs. That's what happened to the racist owners who used to own clubs in the NBA and the NFL. The Rooney Rule helped to educate them, by helping them to actually talk to black people for a change, and finding out what was in their minds, instead of just their feet and hands....

"White faces"???? What does that even mean? Are you trying to say that ethnically Sam Allerdyce is exactly the same as Manuel Pellegrini, simply because they are both what you would class as white? Do people in Dudley have the same culture and ethnica trends that people in the Atacama Desert have???? lThat argument may cut in America, a place that has very strict immigration in modern history, and where the term "white American" may go a long way to describe the dilution of the immigrant communities that make up people of a particular skin tone, but in Europe where immigration between nationalities is still alive and well, grouping all "white faces" into one pot is pretty incredible, and pretty offensive!!

While you may discredit it, you simply cannot argue that the PL is pretty damn multi-cultural, even from a managers position.... in American terms for a start we have 6 "hispanic" managers, and two black managers, which in terms of minorities is blasting the national average. There are 4 white English managers in the national league, if there were 19 I would see your point.

The Rooney Rule wouldnt work in Europe! The concept of micro-identity in Europe is too strong to ever make something fair. For every black man you are forced to interview, there would have to be every subcategory of race/ethnic group or nationality. In the UK you would have to interview an Asian (A Pakistani/India/South Asia/Gurkha/Chinese and Korean), a black, an Eastern European (who would then rightly turn round and say that a Bulgarian is different to a Pole, and a Pole is different to a Latvian, and a Latvian can be a Russian Lat or a European facing Lat who identifies on something completely different) , someone who represents the Arab Community, a Somalian, what about all Zimbabweans and South Africans.... and then what about the different religions, or the different sexual orientations, or hair colour, or bald people, etc etc etc.

Sorry, doesnt work.