There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:52 pm

KipperJohn wrote:As well as a replacement for KP, the big spot is 3 if Trott doesn't return.

There isn't a better No. 3 on home soil in the country at Test level than Bell, so why just about everybody's team has Bell batting elsewhere is beyond me.

I can only suppose that they are worried about a lack of experience at 4, 5 and 6.Personally I think that has been Flower's achilles heel in not finding or having the confidence in replacements for the likes of Colly, Strauss, Trott and KP.

There should have been rebuilding over time - instead we've hit a brick wall and had to start again.


Bell's age is another factor, best find a batsman who can occupy the no3 slot for years to come rather than fill it on a short term basis.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby englandmad666 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:25 am

Making_Splinters wrote:Something like;

Cook
Root / Robson
Ali
Bell
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Onions

Or

Cook
Root / Robson
Ali
Bell
Taylor
Ballance
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Onions

I'm still not convinced that there's no chance of us seeing Trott back at three.


I really cant see buttler as a test wicketkeeper, i think prior will rightfully take the gloves back. He had a shocker in aus and has been out of nick since NZ but he still has a lot to offer hopefully this break will do him good. I agree with the bell at 3 theory, he can be a very strong number 3 for us for at least a couple of years until he retires and somebody else is blooded and moved into that spot. I think part of me thinks trotts career is over. We have heard nothing from him in regards to his return or his rehabilitation
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:56 am

englandmad666 wrote:...i think prior will rightfully take the gloves back...

He may, but whether "rightfully" is open to question. His keeping has been very poor, even by his own standards, in the last couple of series and his batting, always one dimensional, has been poorer than usual too.

I'm a great believer in the best batsmen batting as high as possible and the others, less experienced, finding their feet lower down the order so, just now, I see no reason why Bell should not open the innings with Cook.

The only Morgan playing tests for England should be Ben Morgan.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:06 am

I think part of me thinks trotts career is over. We have heard nothing from him in regards to his return or his rehabilitation


The assumption is that Trott will have a say in this, but in quiting the Ashes tour Trott has really put himself under a lot of duress for future tours, and considering his illness (and the public's lack of understanding) I cant see a return working. Its ok to say, for instance, that if Trott isnt bang on form and returns to the side and has a few innings failure, that failure or any subsequent failure at any point of his career will now be linked to this tour.

If he returns to Warwickshire and bangs 100's out left right and centre then he also doesnt prove anything, as you expect an international under less pressure in a lesser environment to do that, as Trescothick did for many years at Somerset.

For a Trott return to work at his age he simply needs to batter attacks round until the point he wants to retire, or someone will take issue with him. People will see his illness as a weakness thats inherent in him, and to a certain extent I would even agree that chasing the dream of returning to test cricket while fighting against huge tides of pressure is not the kind of environment he wants to put himself in quickly.... and given time he becomes too old and his time out too long to make him a viable pick again.

I cant see him coming back, and if he does he finds himself against the odds to last long really.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:09 am

The only Morgan playing tests for England should be Ben Morgan.


If the England setup had an heart, or a brain, someone should have been telling Morgan to go slap bang in India for a few extra pennies.... his pulling out of the IPL touting a renewed hope of test cricket was really silly.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:10 am

He may, but whether "rightfully" is open to question. His keeping has been very poor, even by his own standards, in the last couple of series and his batting, always one dimensional, has been poorer than usual too.


Indeniably so, but Bairstow is/was a terrible replacement, and Buttler is no test keeper.... and regardless of what anyone says, those are the three only options the selectors are going to think about.

I think they will stick to the "devil they know" even if Prior's form deserves nothing but benching with the hope that (a) he picks up a little form or (b) Buttler or someone else has a county season that makes a standout replacement viable.

I guess additionally the idea of picking a specialist keeper is madness when Stokes bats at 6 and half your top 5 is brand new or on terrible form.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Gingerfinch » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:13 am

Trott has said he will be playing for Warwickshire this summer, so is I assume, up for selection.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby englandmad666 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:36 am

Prior is still our best wicket keeper bat D/L i know you aint a fan but this time last year the thought of dropping prior was unthinkable
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby englandmad666 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:55 am

As for trott subject, i think your right sussex trott would have to comeback and score runs for fun if he was to comeback and struggle with the way this england team is apparently "moving on" from KP i think the same would have to happen to trott. Personally i hope he plays out his career at warks making thousands of runs and passes his ability on to the future generations.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:28 am

englandmad666 wrote:Prior is still our best wicket keeper bat D/L i know you aint a fan but this time last year the thought of dropping prior was unthinkable

With his mediocre keeping and his "one style fits all" type of battting, the thought of dropping Prior has been thinkable for many years, em666.

I'd expect Bairstow to be given this season to demonstrate whether he is a better alternative (he's certainly a younger one) with both bat and gloves.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby KipperJohn » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:54 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Bell hasn't done well at three though. Which doesn't mean he won't but it gives room for doubt. I thought his not batting there in the winter was a big fat red herring. Particularly as he didn't have such a good series batting where he was. His form in the past two years is in as much of a slump as everyone else's, which doesn't suggest his success there is inevitable. However, he is our experienced middle order bat, and I'd play him in the prime spot at four and play three openers, 1-3, to protect him from the new ball.


Nobody's success is inevitable as we well know. However, I specifically made the point about 'home soil' and Bell's last innings at 3 when replacing Trott at home was his highest - 235 - and his home form in the last Ashes was instrumental in the series win. Given the situations he found himself he might just as well have been batting at 3. Bell is used to facing the new ball and his technique is as good as anyone's against swing and pace.

As for his age, well if he maintains form and fitness he could go on for 4/5 years - never struck me as being injury prone and his hand -eye coordination seems to be undiminished.

However, whether he will retain the hunger to stay on the treadmill of international cricket is another issue entirely.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:20 pm

Yes, he could go on for a while as his technique is good. I'm not convinced it matters that much if he bats 3, 4 or 5, so if he bats three, that's fine. Maybe he should just bat where he wants.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 pm

KipperJohn wrote:As for his age, well if he maintains form and fitness he could go on for 4/5 years - never struck me as being injury prone and his hand -eye coordination seems to be undiminished.

However, whether he will retain the hunger to stay on the treadmill of international cricket is another issue entirely.


Since his peak against India in 2011, he has had one good series, and averages 36.8 and has got out quite frequently in feeble ways, chipping spinners up into the ring being quite common. That's over two years. Yet, he is a good player, I expect to do well. An average like that won't keep him in the team if new players succeed though. KP averaged 38.7 and his form was given as a reason to leave him out. Or sack him.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby englandmad666 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:35 pm

Im ian bells biggest fan but i think whether or not and how long he continues will be down to the one questionable part of his game and that is his hunger. Bell quite rightly should be regarded as one of englands best middle order batsmen of the last 20 years. Some of his innings have been sensational and simply stunning but he really should be one of the best england players ever but often when set he finds ways and means to throw his wicket away. Now anybody can do that but bell is just to good a player for it to happen to on a regular basis his technique, temperamant and shot selection are on par with anybody. He should be finishing his career averaging 50+ and 30 odd tons but at times i think he has felt demotivated and lacked that sachin tendulkar like hunger to score more and more and more.

Thats just my opinion but i think bell may look back one day and wonder what if
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:16 pm

I suspect all the England players have become tired of Flower's influence, which is why everyone is struggling. Which is another reason why its a shame KP didn't get another go without him in charge.
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