There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:26 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Is it the right time to judge Cook? More so, than say, when England won at home to Australia, or they turned around a 1-0 deficit in India? His problems as a captain aren't just intuition, which he can do nothing about, but intention, which he can. Maybe Cook can do the most for his captaincy by scoring runs in familiar quantities. My greatest concern for Cook as skipper isn't really so much that he might not get the most out of the team, but that he won't get the most out of himself, as a batter.

Agree with that

India was more about his weight of runs, rather than his abilities as captain, I think, and the home ashes series was very flattering to England. Australia were giving it away then almost as readily as we are now.

I think now is the perfect time to judge his captaincy. I am not for one moment questioning his place in the side
Last edited by Durhamfootman on Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby greyblazer » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:27 pm

With Cook you suspect Aussies targeted him, KP and Trott the most before the 10 Tests began. Cook is struggling, Trott has gone back home and KP somehow has been average and occasionally above average. A lot of planning and perfect execution.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:11 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:I'm wondering what the alternatives are to Cook as skip, should he step down or be sacked at the end of the tour. He is clearly a fairly poor captain atm, being of a naturally overly cautious disposition and seeming to be slow to respond to on field situations. (that might change, of course, over time)

Disregarding the new boys.......... KP was a disaster, Bell has shown no indication that he is suitable for, or up to, the job, Broad seems pretty brainless, and Anderson a bit too retiring by nature.

The, perhaps, more obvious candidates, Swann and Prior, are no longer in the team.

Cook might end up being captain for a while, almost by default, so he probably needs to spend his time between now and the SL series, reading up on how to be a good captain

Back to the old 'where's Colly' scenario again

If Cook carries on batting well enough to stay in the team, then, as long as he stays free from PR gaffes (PR is the most important part of the role), he may as well carry on as captain too. Despite what the media would have us believe, the job on the field has been gradually de-skilled to almost nothing since the days of Brearley.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:40 am

Well, Flower is going to continue. So that's one thing cleared up.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:10 am

im not sure whole sale changes are what we need as the players in the team are mostly the best options we have

what i would like to see change is the team philosophy/attitude, i feel we are way too defensive and play first and foremost not to lose, i want to see us playing to win and playing without the fear of failure that has rendered us strokeless for much of the two ashes series (bar bell in england)

id like to see us be much more positive especially in the batting department as you dont win tests scoring at 2.5 runs an over and also with cooks field placings which scatter to all parts of the ground way to quickly

one change i would make immediately is bell at 3, its his natural position and root has been getting bogged down far to easily, also it would mean bell isnt coming in after a mini collapse and is instead setting the tone for the innings
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:11 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Is it the right time to judge Cook? More so, than say, when England won at home to Australia, or they turned around a 1-0 deficit in India? His problems as a captain aren't just intuition, which he can do nothing about, but intention, which he can. Maybe Cook can do the most for his captaincy by scoring runs in familiar quantities. My greatest concern for Cook as skipper isn't really so much that he might not get the most out of the team, but that he won't get the most out of himself, as a batter.


Very much my thoughts on this issue. And for the latter reason , it might be nice if there were a Mike Brearley ready to step in...but there ain't. Cook wants to carry on , he says. If it is true we learn more from our defeats than our victories , then he has his first chance in a still young captaincy career to really learn...

He is an intelligent man. Not an extrovert , but that that isn't essential. Let him go home , think about things , and come back better as a leader.

England are often a bit too ready to dump captains. As are India and Pakistan ! SA and Australia tend to stick with them more ; and I think it serves them better , most of the time. Border went a long time as skipper before winning anything ; but in the end he did well. And Clarke said he might have been out of a job if he had lost this series (I doubt it , myself - but there were a lot of posts on here calling for his head !)

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:34 am

Backfootpunch refers above to the philosophy/ attitude of the team...and I would agree it has been too defensive of late.

When did this start ? Was certainly not apparent when the team was riding at number one on the ICC scale... Did it begin when Strauss left ? Or was it born in the struggles against spin on the sandy soil of the UAE ?

Whatever the answer , it needs fixing. And I don't see that happening with a top three of Cook Carberry and Root. I have a strong suspicion that a lot of things would look better suddenly if England could just turn a brisk 50/1 , as we saw twice in Melbourne , into a reasonably smooth 120/2... Might see some more fluency from the middle ...and maybe even a bit of wag from the tail.

No magic formula for ensuring this , sorry. But I think that is where an injection of new blood is most needed , and if it were successful there would be a strong flow on effect. Now might not be the best time to put a stuttering Bell back to three. But that may be the way to go in the summer ?
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Gingerfinch » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:59 am

Cook's still an inexperienced captain, and is in the middle of his first trough, and as they say, you can only learn from the mistakes you make. Being a little more positive, and having your better players perform, which you can't blame him for, will at least be a start. I never rated Strauss as a great captain, he was just lucky in that he had some of our finest players, playing at their peak. Cook on the other hand has players who are perhaps coming to their twilight, obviously this is a fact with Swann.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:36 am

Cook has never displayed on the field nous to be a good captain. Once again there will be the "head in the sand" crew that call this reactive, but it was the same people when the critique was made constantly through the last few series that have ignored all his mistakes and ignored even a substantive debate on the issue.

I dont really blame Cook that much. In a setup where he is told what he does even on his days off, told what to eat, wear and how to wipe his bum to improve his reaction speed, there was never much room for him to grow into his role. He talks from the hymn sheet provided, he captains to tactics provided.....In a way its like expecting a person who only emails the whole of his life to understand how to write with a pen. Having Cook is to have a person that can only do what he has been told.....

We tried to go down the KP route but maybe a strong character saying things to people that they dont want to here is not comfortable enough for this set of players. To be honest I would like to see someone with a proper cricket brain leading England on the field, and someone that will say what they are thinking.... its all too comfortable
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:55 am

These are the strike rates of the England bats this year. Trott, at three scored quite quickly. Bell, who is rated for a return to three is one of the slower scorers, same as Root.. Slowest are Carberry and Compton.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:01 pm

Prior's average over the year isn't worse than others. And pretty normal for a wk. And better than Bairstow's without the gloves.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Kim » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:23 pm

Very good young blogger talking a lot of sense

http://jacksheldon93.tumblr.com/post/71 ... -test-team
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:38 pm

Kim wrote:Very good young blogger talking a lot of sense

http://jacksheldon93.tumblr.com/post/71 ... -test-team


I got as far as the suggestion that criticism is "knee jerky" and stopped paying attention......
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:55 pm

Reasonable stuff. But Woakes being made captain in SL doesn't fit with him having no England future.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:57 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Kim wrote:Very good young blogger talking a lot of sense

http://jacksheldon93.tumblr.com/post/71 ... -test-team


I got as far as the suggestion that criticism is "knee jerky" and stopped paying attention......


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