There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:15 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Seems, in places, the Stokes backlash has begun. I think he's been impressive.

He's very young, of course, but seems to have done whatever has been required of him. I think he'll be in the side for a while, because he gives Flower lots of other options. Scoring that century in a high pressure situation will have scored him lots of tufty points.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:21 pm

He plays straight. He plays front and back foot and can hook, He's got time against pace and seems to have belief in himself. He's obviously inexperienced. But he looks a more likely batting success than Bairstow, to me. And he bowls. There will be different challenges, though I don't see why he shouldn't be given a good chance. As I said about Woakes, all rounders are gold, they transform the side.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby hopeforthebest » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:24 am

I agree about Stokes he appears to have all the basics to develope into a fine all rounder. As for Woakes I hope England stop traipsing him around without playing him, let him stay with his county an continue his developement in peace.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:42 am

Oddly enough , I am in favour of Stokes at six ...despite the five bowler system producing three more straight losses to go with the previous poor record :) I don't expect him to tear down trees overnight , but he looks to have something about him.
Since Swann has gone , I tend to agree that a fifth bowler is needed for now. Having just four almost certainly will burn out Anderson prematurely. (I expect Anderson to be around for a while yet , as long as he is sensibly handled. The conditions here have hobbled him somewhat this series , but he doesn't look ready for the knackers yard yet . A rest of a few months now should see him fine for the home summer. I think he has missed two matches for England in the last five years ? Oh yes , plus two in Bangladesh ...still , four out of what , sixty six ? That is a lot of work for any fast bowler !)

If Broad , Anderson and Stokes are to be three regular bowlers , there is scope for some flexibility in the other two. Borthwick is presumably going to be tried (doesn't hurt that he can bat a bit ) , Bresnan and Monty are still fallbacks , Finn may come again...and there may be others who are worth having a look at.

The batting order will need to be stabilized somehow. I think this might be better managed by fixing one spot at a time rather than two or three changes at once. But who to introduce first , and where , I leave to better informed and wiser heads than mine...
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:00 pm

If the team we're heading towards as the veterans retire is something like

Cook
Robson
Root
Taylor
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Borthwick
Jordan
Broad
Finn

I'm not sure we will adequately replace the fine players who have retired/will retire.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Albondiga » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:23 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Albondiga wrote: Durhamfootman ------ I can assure you it's not just you !!!!! My captain for many of my club games was a man who believed that when you changed the bowling you CHANGED MORE THAN JUST THE BOWLER otherwise it wasn't worth it. He always wanted one bowler who was the quickest he could get , one swing bowler , one seam bowler and two spinners which was generally one off spinner and one slow left arm. One or more of those five were allrounders. He won more dames than he lost because the batsmen generally knew that 180 to 200 was going to be enough.


Never worked for Steve Waugh..... and he had arguably the best dual spinner combo ever


I presume you're talking about Warne and May rather than Warne and Magill because I think that Warne kept Magill out of the side and they never bowled much together but my memory may let me down.

Talking about dual spinners in a team there was of course Laker & Lock, I would go for Grimmett & O'Reilly as possibly being the best but <india have had Bedi . Chanderasekar, Prassanna & Venkat who bowled in various combinations very successfully.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:11 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:If the team we're heading towards as the veterans retire is something like

Cook
Robson
Root
Taylor
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Borthwick
Jordan
Broad
Finn

I'm not sure we will adequately replace the fine players who have retired/will retire.


Perhaps not. But Anderson , Bell , Pietersen and Prior may all be around for a year or two yet ...and by the time they are replaced there may be names in there we haven't even heard of yet.
Who knew Root would have a couple of Test hundreds up by now , in 2011 ?
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:49 pm

I'm wondering what the alternatives are to Cook as skip, should he step down or be sacked at the end of the tour. He is clearly a fairly poor captain atm, being of a naturally overly cautious disposition and seeming to be slow to respond to on field situations. (that might change, of course, over time)

Disregarding the new boys.......... KP was a disaster, Bell has shown no indication that he is suitable for, or up to, the job, Broad seems pretty brainless, and Anderson a bit too retiring by nature.

The, perhaps, more obvious candidates, Swann and Prior, are no longer in the team.

Cook might end up being captain for a while, almost by default, so he probably needs to spend his time between now and the SL series, reading up on how to be a good captain

Back to the old 'where's Colly' scenario again
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:56 pm

If Durham is a better team than the sum of its parts, because of Colly, then England is a poorer team than the sum of its parts because of Cook.

Cook is a fine player, and will possibly be opening the batting for the next 5 years, but ITB was a fine player too, and one only has to listen to the drivel that he spouts to appreciate how poorly he read and understood the game.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:09 pm

Is it the right time to judge Cook? More so, than say, when England won at home to Australia, or they turned around a 1-0 deficit in India? His problems as a captain aren't just intuition, which he can do nothing about, but intention, which he can. Maybe Cook can do the most for his captaincy by scoring runs in familiar quantities. My greatest concern for Cook as skipper isn't really so much that he might not get the most out of the team, but that he won't get the most out of himself, as a batter.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Red Devil » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:11 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:If the team we're heading towards as the veterans retire is something like

Cook
Robson
Root
Taylor
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Borthwick
Jordan
Broad
Finn

I'm not sure we will adequately replace the fine players who have retired/will retire.


Moeen Ali, Woakes, Rankin and even Bopara may have a thing ro two to say about that side - also can't see Bairstow as a real test keeper
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:13 pm

Perhaps the first three. Can't see Ravi getting back in.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:18 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Perhaps the first three. Can't see Ravi getting back in.

I can.

Humiliation can lead to almost anything happening.

Rule nothing out
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby greyblazer » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:20 pm

Unless KP has enough of all the criticism surrounding him and retires he will be around along with Anderson for another say 2 years. Both still have some cricket left in the tank.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby greyblazer » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Bell certainly will be around for a few more years. The big question mark is on Prior.
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