There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

[meninblue]

The selection of a batting keeper with Prior worked well, because he gave us top six runs, and missed very little with the gloves. You might miss out on someone to stand up to a medium quick, which a special keeper might be able to do. But Prior showed, it's possible for a batter to be quite adequate behind the stumps.

Prior has missed little over the years, missing more than one (he went three years without dropping a chance standing back) as he did in Perth was unusual. Trouble is, those hankering after a specialist keeper might assume that another keeper might take every chance that Prior misses. Whereas in reality that is unlikely. Knott missed chances, as did Taylor. Russell missed far more than Prior has.

And England just won't pick a specialist keeper. If another batter comes through as able as Matt behind the stumps, we don't need one.

There is hardly any doubt that Prior is not a good keeper. However, all the keepers i have seen have dropped catches or missed stumpings. The expectations from wicket keeper , by the selectors themselves is different in this era. imo it is seen that way right from club level to international level. The keeper is expected to score runs as well as keep wickets, just like all rounders are expected to pick wickets and score runs.Like all rounders wicket keepers who can bat well are rare. Especially, if a team does not has a proven all rounder, the think tank will be more inclined to look for runs from a wicket keeper.After Freddie retired, Bresnan has failed to make similar impact as all rounder. Ben is still to new at this level. So Prior, although not being the best on pure keeping skills, fitted the requirement of the English selectors and has stayed in team for years now.Also,even specialist keepers drop catches and miss stumpings even though it will be less.The problem with specialist keepers is that if they get in bad keeping form and then follow it with a golden duck, then the selectors perhaps find it difficult to justify the place of specialist keepers who do drop catches.Having said that Prior has to contribute runs now.he will get a extended run beign a core player of the team.maybe that would be enough for him to come back in reasonable form.

[sussexpob]

Wicket keepers get far more opportunities to take catches than any other player and a missed chance can cost dearly so why not the best keeper ????????

Chris Read played 15 test matches.... inside those test matches he played in the only 5-0 whitewash England ever had, he played in the infamous 1999 Summer series vs New Zealand when the much disrespected NZ team beat us to condemn us to the bottom of the test championship (Chris Read scored something like 1 run in 3 tests).... he also played in the Sri Lanka series in 2003 when England were spanked by Sri Lanka by a margin only Bradman's team and the Windies at their peak have ever exceeded in English history....

Everywhere that Chris Read went, bad things happened. He played in successful series only against the worst teams, and his dropping between 2003- 2006 was when England got better and better.

[sussexpob]

As for James Foster.... it was his dropping of the ball that gave to byes to Netherlands in the T20 World Cup at Lords in 2008.... one ball later the Netherlands had beat us, courtesy of Foster's mistake.

That is arguably the most embaressing loss or the worst team England have been beaten by in their International history

[sussexpob]

I guess at the end of the day the problem with recent past and specialist keepers is lack of knowledge.

Read was a decent player but his keeping was nothing special. Obviously at some point when he was 20 he took a stunner while David Graveney was watching and that was it, he was an excellent keeper. Foster was the same, he made countless mistakes in the games he played in but ignorant fans still band his name around like he is some keeping messiah, just because people dont pay attention to county cricket.

Does Miller really sit and watch keepers for 4 days of a county game? I mean really watch them, check out their technique and such? I doubt it, and I doubt very much that anyone of us also do.

If you are picking a keeper on keeping ability you not only need to find a good keeper, but an absolute faultless one. If he makes a few mistakes then his batting even averaging ten or 5 runs per game less is never going to pay off.

I personally think that a batting keeper who can keep to a good standard is more efficient for the team than a very good keeper and average batter.

[Kim]

I guess at the end of the day the problem with recent past and specialist keepers is lack of knowledge.

Read was a decent player but his keeping was nothing special. Obviously at some point when he was 20 he took a stunner while David Graveney was watching and that was it, he was an excellent keeper. Foster was the same, he made countless mistakes in the games he played in but ignorant fans still band his name around like he is some keeping messiah, just because people dont pay attention to county cricket.

Does Miller really sit and watch keepers for 4 days of a county game? I mean really watch them, check out their technique and such? I doubt it, and I doubt very much that anyone of us also do.

If you are picking a keeper on keeping ability you not only need to find a good keeper, but an absolute faultless one. If he makes a few mistakes then his batting even averaging ten or 5 runs per game less is never going to pay off.

I personally think that a batting keeper who can keep to a good standard is more efficient for the team than a very good keeper and average batter.

There's a lot in that. Foster, for example, looks absolutely brilliant standing up to medium pacers in one day cricket. One day cricket gets televised a lot ergo he's a brilliant keeper - even if this judgement is based on a skill next to useless in Test cricket. Clueless media don't help either- when Ambrose, who is a superb keeper, was first picked, a journo on a major national paper had to ring round to find out about him - unfortunately he misheard and got the impression that Tim was a batsman who took up keeping late (Tim first kept at the age of 8) and did a piece about us picking yet another manufactured keeper. Willis must have read it because he droned on about this for the next 6 months.

The other trouble with judging keepers as keepers is that the media will push keepers based just on runs (most will rarely, if ever have seen them play, let alone keep). Classic example is Steve Davies who was championed early when he truly was dreadful with the gloves - or, as another pro keeper said, when he "couldn't keep chickens."

Prior has just had one bad Test with the gloves, that's all. IMO hes underrated as a keeper by many. But my opinion is irrelevant. Maybe more relevant is the opinion of Jack Russell who was interviewed by someone I know about three months ago. Jack felt Matt was the best keeper batsman in the Test cricket - and, no doubt to the surprise of many, the best pure keeper playing Tests as well.

[sussexpob]

Batting Keepers in general are highly scrutinised. In fact, in a way I think Foster and Read's abhorrent performances with the bat in certain ways made them more appealing with the gloves, simply because it made their pick more explainable. I mean I cant remember the mass details of either's career, but certainly in Read's last match at the SCG he put down more than one, and put down a few in his debut series too. Foster put down a few by memory too, as well as his embarrassing miss in the Holland T20 game.

If you ask me there have been some extremely good keepers in recent times. Adam Gilchrist is often not given a hope in the debate over him and Healy, often based on the latters ability to keep to spin...... Gilchrist took more catches than Healy from spin in about 25-30 less tests, and took more stumpings. And Healy was keeper in the only prolonged time in Warne/MacGill's career when Australia played two spinners ( In say 97-99ish).

Gilchrist made as few errors as a keeper could really make, but his average of 47 makes many cricket fans wary for some reason.

[D/L]

...Prior has just had one bad Test with the gloves, that's all. ...

Yes, but it could not be said that, with the gloves, Prior has had just one bad test. There have been many.

[Kim]

That's your view. Its certainly not mine - so we are going nowhere on that one.

[sussexpob]

...Prior has just had one bad Test with the gloves, that's all. ...

Yes, but it could not be said that, with the gloves, Prior has had just one bad test. There have been many.

He had a horror show at Perth, and in the home Ashes his missed stumping of Clarke at Lords could have been costly when you consider Clarke was coming off a period where he scored 4 x 200's or something stupid. If you want to go further back then you could argue that in Sri Lanka in 07/08 he had a tour as bad as a keeper could ever have, dropping many simple chances that cost England changes to win.

Since then though he has undoubtably gotten much better, and aside from the slips, is proven himself a firm option.

Again it comes down to taste..... I for one thought Boucher to be an immensly poor keeper, he dropped a lot of chances.... yet many people claim him the best of the last decade.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Boucher started very badly, but improved. Because keepers can be made. I bet Geraint Jones is reasonable now...

[andy]

Wheater is a quality gloveman, always has been, only reason he couldnt get into essex side reguarly is because Foster is the best gloveman in the country..

Then why is he not playing for England ?????

Because Foster "is the best gloveman in England" is a myth on par with Jesus Christ, Santa Claus and the Easterbunny.....

how is it?

[Ali888]

Wicket keepers get far more opportunities to take catches than any other player and a missed chance can cost dearly so why not the best keeper ????????

Chris Read played 15 test matches.... inside those test matches he played in the only 5-0 whitewash England ever had,

If you mean against Australia 7 years ago, he only played in the last 2 tests. Jones played in the first 3.

[sussexpob]

Wheater is a quality gloveman, always has been, only reason he couldnt get into essex side reguarly is because Foster is the best gloveman in the country..

Then why is he not playing for England ?????

Because Foster "is the best gloveman in England" is a myth on par with Jesus Christ, Santa Claus and the Easterbunny.....

how is it?

Because he is very average

[Arthur Crabtree]

I don't think we have a tour for over a year now. This allows Monty to play as our first spinner, and means England really don't have to make a decision on a second spinner until then. There should be a lot of competition, because there isn't an obvious second candidate.

[D/L]

I don't think we have a tour for over a year now. This allows Monty to play as our first spinner, and means England really don't have to make a decision on a second spinner until then...

Heaven forfend us from that (if the selectors don't).