Racism in English football?

[Gingerfinch]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19989136

"I want to apologise to everyone for the language I used in the game."

If he'd said this from the very beginning, everything could've been so different....

Indeed. He would have got in trouble but people would have also understood why it was said, as it was a heat of the moment comment.

[Aidan11]

There's a few of the PL players refusing to wear their anti-racism shirts this weekend over the Terry fiasco.

[Gingerfinch]

Ha, was just going to paste this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20003368

Is Roberts being petty?

[mikesiva]

Ha, was just going to paste this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20003368

Is Roberts being petty?

I find Jason Brown's comments about Kick It out interesting....

"I support him 100%," Brown said. "I've had this stance since an incident when I was playing for Gillingham against Chesterfield a few years ago. After the lack of support I had from Kick It Out and the FA, I said I would never support them because I feel they don't want to help players in the lower leagues."

More here....

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 19002.html

'Ferguson said Roberts, who believes that Kick it Out is fatally flawed by lacking independence from the Football Association, was "making the wrong point" by rejecting the organisation. "Everyone should be united, with all the players in the country wearing the Kick It Out warm-up tops," the United manager said. "I don't know what point he is trying to make. I don't know if he is trying to put himself on a different pedestal from everyone, but he really should be supporting all the rest of the players who are doing it. When you do something, and everyone believes in it, you should all do it together. There shouldn't be sheep wandering off. I think he is making the wrong message." Roberts was travelling to Anfield yesterday for Reading's match with Liverpool this afternoon and was unwilling to discuss Ferguson's comments as he prepared himself for that fixture. But privately, the 34-year-old is deeply disappointed by the United manager's response, particularly the inference that he is seeking attention. Roberts's decision is an individual one and he has not sought to recruit other players, such as either of the Ferdinands, to create a broader protest.'

And....

'Yet Roberts is among a number of black players who feel a stronger voice is needed against racism in the game. There is also frustration in the Roberts camp that the striker and broadcaster has been left among black members of the football fraternity to speak up on racism, with Rio Ferdinand's own views on the subject emerging only in fragments on Twitter or occasional interviews. Mark McCammon, the black former Barbados international whom an employment tribunal found three months ago to have been racially victimised in his dismissal by Gillingham, told The Independent yesterday that he was "disappointed" it was being left to Roberts to speak out. He said that something more than "T-shirts and bulletins" were needed to enforce the point that racism was still present in the game.'

McCammon: "This all just gets swept under the carpet. People just say you've got a chip on your shoulder. Now Sir Alex Ferguson, a white person, thinks he is in a position to say what he has said about Jason Roberts. He is one of the best managers in the world but that doesn't make him the best in the world for an understanding of racism."

Personally, I agree with McCammon....I think Kick It Out is a good concept, but they can do so much more. I believe Roberts is within his rights to feel frustrated with the limited progress being made by Kick It Out, and I support his right to express such frustration by not wearing the shirt. I also suspect by not wearing a shirt, he will probably be subjected to a torrent of racial abuse on twitter, facebook or whatever, which will further serve to highlight that racism is still an issue.

Yes, it might not be as bad as certain countries in eastern Europe, but it's a problem that still surfaces now and then, to remind us that it's simmering beneath the surface....

[SaintPowelly]

Thing is, Roberts can get away with not wearing a shirt because he is black. A white player that is equally unhappy about the lack of progress and lack of punishment against JT/Suarez and refusing to wear a shirt would then be branded a racist.

[Making_Splinters]

Well said Sir Alex.

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson, speaking about Rio Ferdinand not wearing a Kick It Out T-shirt in the warm-up before his side's game against Stoke: "At the press conference yesterday I spoke to the press about it. It is embarrassing for me. He will be dealt with, no doubt about that."

[yuppie]

Maybe Rio felt he could not wear the T Shirt after his choc ice comment to Ashley Cole?

Well said Sir Alex.

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson, speaking about Rio Ferdinand not wearing a Kick It Out T-shirt in the warm-up before his side's game against Stoke: "At the press conference yesterday I spoke to the press about it. It is embarrassing for me. He will be dealt with, no doubt about that."

[from_the_stands]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20017021

[mikesiva]

Well said Sir Alex.

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson, speaking about Rio Ferdinand not wearing a Kick It Out T-shirt in the warm-up before his side's game against Stoke: "At the press conference yesterday I spoke to the press about it. It is embarrassing for me. He will be dealt with, no doubt about that."

I totally disagree with SAF on this issue. While Rio can say and do stupid things at times, on this issue, I believe he's totally within his rights to feel that Kick It Out have not done enough. And, despite the stories splashed across the media, he's not alone. There are quite a few players out there who took the same stance:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/pre ... eakingnews

"I think people feel let down by what used to be called 'Let's Kick Racism Out of Football.' People don't feel like they have been strong enough."

I agree with those sentiments by Roberts....

Jason Roberts, Rio Ferdinand, Joleon Lescott, Micah Richards, Garath McCleary, and a number of players at Swansea and Wigan also followed suit, though you wouldn't know that from the headlines, which seem to focus mainly on Rio and Roberts:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 19470.html

According to the Sunday Times, none of the Swansea and Wigan players wore the tee-shirts, including white players, in solidarity with black players who feel like Rio and Roberts. Also, many in West Ham's squad also refused to wear the tee-shirts. In today's match, Everton players Sylvain Distin and Victor Anichebe say they won't be wearing the tee-shirts, and I'm willing to bet Anton Ferdinand and a few other QPR players won't either.

There are a lot of black players who are on the frontline, feeling the brunt of the racism, and I think it's rich that someone like Fergie should be trying to tell Rio what to do about this racism issue. Rather, I salute the Reading manager, who said he spoke to Roberts, and respected his decision.

From yesterday's article in the above post:

'Kick It Out's former director Piara Powar, now executive director of the Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network, said he appreciated Roberts's frustration but insisted his former organisation was not a part of the problem. "If Kick It Out had not been in existence over the past 20 years the situation would be worse," Powar said. "There has been some discontent amongst black players for some time – the discontent is with the FA and the sense that English football has failed to effectively deal with the John Terry situation. More militancy from black players is welcome; they are in a powerful position. The public will understand the sense of anger over the fact that players are in the front line of abuse and this feeling that the authorities have not acted in the right way in every case; it has led to an unprecedentedly bitter and divisive year."'

If Powar, who used to run Kick It Out, doesn't have a problem with Roberts et al taking that stance, then why should managers who don't really know what these players are going thru? Why do these out-of-touch managers think that just by wearing a tee-shirt, this abuse will stop? It's clear that Kick It Out is under-funded and under-staffed, and has been so for some time. Maybe this is what is needed to push the FA to do something more than pay lip service to the issue.

When the economy worsens in a country, ethnic minorities tend to be targetted. I hope these players continue to stand up and demand that more be done....

[sussexpob]

I dont think Ferguson is suggesting that wearing a tee shirt stops it; as he said, its about a united and non fractured front against it. The way you talk, Mike, its like the Premier League and its authorities arent doing anything about it.... as far as I am aware, the FA charged Terry and Suarez and dished out punishments in both cases were the courts of the land wouldnt have done.

In those incidents I cant really see what more can be done. The FA is not responsible for society in general, and it cant stop idiots from, coming to games and saying things... when they do come and do that, the result is they are ejected and banned.

I mean you talk about football like it isn't relatively free of racism.... how many of the top stars in English football are white Englishman? 8 players, 6 of which played in the Poland v England game, were non white, which in terms of a racial demographic would mean that the black players are over represented as a percentage in comparison to that of white/black in free society.... I would guess this also is true of football in general. One white player is also of Polish descent in the squad.

It happens, but the authorities are pretty good at punishing people when it does.... its free to say that racism is not tolerated at any level of football, and you can draw on instances were people are subject to racism, but then again, no amount of awareness campaign eradicates racism... thats not the point. The point is that you make a statement it wont be tolerated when it does arise.

As for the tee shirt thing.... I think the players are being childish. They dont have to wear one, I wouldnt force that on a player, but I dont want to hear a player who earns more in a week than the schemes yearly budget think he can moan about it. If Rio et al give a *modded* then lets see some action... lets see the, do better rather than *modded* and complain...

Oh hang on one sec; Rio has already been combating racism in his spare time on twitter.... calling black people Choc Ices as far as I am aware, something he should have been punished for

[SaintPowelly]

I dont think Ferguson is suggesting that wearing a tee shirt stops it; as he said, its about a united and non fractured front against it. The way you talk, Mike, its like the Premier League and its authorities arent doing anything about it.... as far as I am aware, the FA charged Terry and Suarez and dished out punishments in both cases were the courts of the land wouldnt have done.

In those incidents I cant really see what more can be done. The FA is not responsible for society in general, and it cant stop idiots from, coming to games and saying things... when they do come and do that, the result is they are ejected and banned.

I mean you talk about football like it isn't relatively free of racism.... how many of the top stars in English football are white Englishman? 8 players, 6 of which played in the Poland v England game, were non white, which in terms of a racial demographic would mean that the black players are over represented as a percentage in comparison to that of white/black in free society.... I would guess this also is true of football in general. One white player is also of Polish descent in the squad.

It happens, but the authorities are pretty good at punishing people when it does.... its free to say that racism is not tolerated at any level of football, and you can draw on instances were people are subject to racism, but then again, no amount of awareness campaign eradicates racism... thats not the point. The point is that you make a statement it wont be tolerated when it does arise.

As for the tee shirt thing.... I think the players are being childish. They dont have to wear one, I wouldnt force that on a player, but I dont want to hear a player who earns more in a week than the schemes yearly budget think he can moan about it. If Rio et al give a *modded* then lets see some action... lets see the, do better rather than *modded* and complain...

Oh hang on one sec; Rio has already been combating racism in his spare time on twitter.... calling black people Choc Ices as far as I am aware, something he should have been punished for

I agree 100%, Rio was given a 45k fine for the choc ice comment, which lets face it isnt as punishment. He makes that between a Monday-Wednesday.

[ddb]

FWIW he didn't make the comment, he retweeted it and lol'd or something.

[Making_Splinters]

For the last couple of months I've had about the same amount of respect for Rio Ferdinand as I have for Piers Morgan.

[mikesiva]

Unsurprisingly, Anton Ferdinand does the same, and receives support for his statement....

"Ferdinand was joined in not wearing the T-shirt by QPR team-mates Shaun Wright-Phillips and Junior Hoilett, following the stance taken by Ferdinand's brother Rio prior to Manchester United's game against Stoke on Saturday and by Reading striker Jason Roberts. Everton's Nigeria international Victor Anichebe was another who decided against showing support towards Kick It Out at Loftus Road, along with team-mate Sylvain Distin. The Professional Footballers Association, one of the bodies which funds Kick It Out, insist players are entitled to take a stance over the matter and had earlier defended Rio Ferdinand in the face of possible sanctions from United manager Sir Alex Ferguson."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... erton.html

"Queens Park Rangers boss Mark Hughes has indicated he will not punish his players for refusing to wear the Kick It Out T-Shirt on Sunday. Anton Ferdinand, who John Terry was found guilty of racially abusing by the FA, as well as team-mates Djibril Cisse, Alejandro Faurlin, Junior Hoilett, Nedum Onuoha and Shaun Wright-Phillips,all declined to wear the shirt in support of the anti-racism organisation at QPR's game with Everton at the weekend."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... ut-protest

'Ferguson and Ferdinand met at Manchester United’s Carrington training ground on Sunday, and there are indications there will be no formal disciplinary action against the defender despite the manager’s assertion the player “would be dealt with”. Instead, it is believed Ferguson gave a verbal barracking to Ferdinand for leaving him embarrassed after he had criticised Reading striker Jason Roberts’s refusal to support the campaign by wearing a Kick It Out T-shirt.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... shirt.html

'Clarke Carlisle, the PFA chairman, said: “We will definitely monitor the situation very closely and make sure Rio Ferdinand’s rights as a human being, never mind as a footballer, are not undermined in this position. Everyone has a right to free speech – just like you can’t coerce anyone into shaking hands, you can’t make somebody wear a T-shirt – although I do personally believe that joining in with the campaign is the best way forward. And then for all these players to get together and put what it is they want down on paper so we together as a union – all the players, one with another – can make those changes and move forward. Sir Alex Ferguson is continual in his unwavering support for the Kick It Out campaign which is commendable and what we all want to see but you can’t vilify or coerce any individual for making a stand. This shouldn’t be seen as an element of control or defiance – just like Sir Alex Ferguson said when he was talking about Jason Roberts in his first interview, he doesn’t know the reasons why this stand is being made and what we should do first of all is hear those reasons and listen to them and take them on board. I would sincerely hope that Sir Alex Ferguson now speaks with Rio Ferdinand and asks him why he wanted to make that stand and hopefully supports the position he is in and it isn’t seen as a player-against-manager situation.”'

Ferguson's approach was all wrong...he's not on the firing line of racism, but players like Rio are. He should've spoken to Rio first before making that blanket announcement about all his players wearing Kick It Out shirts. It's good to hear that it now seems likely that he won't be taking action against Rio now. Maybe common sense has prevailed.

[sussexpob]

Ferguson's approach was all wrong...he's not on the firing line of racism, but players like Rio are.

Are you trying to infer that only black people can be offended by racism? If so Mike, you are treading on an ideological minefield I am afraid. Alex Ferguson is as much in the firing line as Rio, they both work in exactly the same environment for the same team, and would be exposed to the same crowd or player nonsense as each other.

I mean this whole "Choc Ice" thing reminds me of a point that the Office once made where David Brent makes a joke about a black man's penis, and in defence he says that the black person he says it too was fine with the joke, only to be told that it was a white person who took offence.... I have as much right to be offended about racism as you Mike, regardless of our difference in skin colour. My friends, I admit who are almost exclusively white, wouldnt make racist jokes because of this. Black people are not the only people who find this behaviour disgusting and harmful.

I mean Rio seems to think its ok to make Choc Ice jokes to Ashley Cole, who didnt respond to it negatively, because he is black and its ok for a black person to make a racist joke on black people.... if anything Mike this sort of behaviour makes the FA actually anti white people, because Suarez and Terry got bans for racial slurs, Rio got virtually nothing.... its a revolving door I'm afraid, and society is unfortunately also a passenger victim, not just the person who the comment is made to.

If John Terry had tweeted Ashley Cole was a choc ice, what do you think his punishment would have been? Both offend me, both should be punished equally regardless of the response. IT IS NOT OK TO USE THE TERM REGARDLESS OF WHO MAKES IT OR WHAT THE RESULTANT RESPONSE IS!!!

Another thing I would also introduce in this would be the notion of harm. Calling someone a name or term that draws to their skin colour is wrong because it causes harm, but in this Anton Ferdinand situation nothing has been said about Anton Ferdinand commenting on JT's marriage and relationship status. Such a comment was made to hurtful and induce a reaction, and although provoked, it seems to be ok to call someone a C**T or any rainbow of names under the sun without punishment, regardless of how hurtful they are.

Its about time we start looking at a whole spectrum of behaviour in football and punish players who feel the need to swear, act like madmen with no hint of responbility, stop cheaters who dive and players who act with wanton disregard to the paying public, who are full of impressionable kids.

I mean the worst thing in football in my opinion is the treatment of referees, who constantly get sworn at and made to feel threatened....