India the Test Future?

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Re: India the Future?

Postby IndusCreed » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:46 pm

sportbloggeradi wrote:It is their performance which makes me feel we need Sachin, V V S and Rahul. They still are quality material and the best available specialist batsmen even at their respective ages.

As for the 100th ton, it's the fans and media who are building it. Not Sachin's fault really that he has made 99.

Dravid did well in England and against West Indies. He has a bad tour now and we suddenly jump on him as scapegoat. What about Sehwag and Gautam ?

I think I mentioned in my post that these players are class Cricketers and will perform given enough chances. I can see that statement of mine to be true even when these guys are in their late 40s. When do we have them off the team? Never?

About that 100 of 100s - I never said it was SRT. But the way things have been built around it, it is bound to affect the best player in the world. I would rather have SRT to forget about it (if possible) and enjoy whatever Cricket time he's got left.

What about Sehwag and Gautam ? In the thread titled "who should be dropped for the 4th test", I personally picked both Sehwag and Gautam to be dropped along with VVS. Not Dravid :) It was only after reading Mr. ddb's post that I realized that I might have shot both the openers :D Nonetheless, if we had options, I would happily stick to my decision still. If SRT is willing to open and we are brave enough to plug in a new face with him, let's do it. Sehwag, in particular, has been awful! Let's get rid of him at least!

I have a lot of respect for Dravid as a Cricketer but his days in the sun might be coming to an end (soon, if not immediately). I cannot say it more clearly than this :thumb
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Re: India the Future?

Postby Red Devil » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:53 pm

I find myself basically agreeing with indus' posts - I have always been a huge huge VVS fan and watching him walk off the other day was one of those rare moments in sport that brought tears to my eyes, but I think the time has come to say thanks for the many many wonderful memories and invest in the future. There will not be a better time to do it than when we have a succession of home tests to allow time for the youngsters to bed into tests.
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Re: India the Future?

Postby rich1uk » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:08 pm

if you are looking at the big 3 as isolated cases then perhaps there is every reason to let them continue until they want to call it a day themselves

unfortunately you cant do that , you have to look at what is best for the team as a whole and the future of the team and allowing all three to continue indefinitely and not look to replace them in a managed way is taking a huge risk. as i said in the other thread my argument all along has always been it will be far easier to introduce someone like rohit or pujara or rahane when they still have a solid core around them. by leaving it too long you risk having to play three new batsmen toegther with no safety net of having experience around them

it might have been harsh on vvs or dravid but the selectors job has to be what is best for the team and not to be afraid of making what might be unpopular short term decisions for long term gain
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Re: India the Future?

Postby HarryPotter » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:09 pm

England's_No7 wrote:
GG - Amir Sohail wrote:Mukund deserves a chance to play tests in India. Can't forget about him after 4 away tests in tricky conditions. Rahane at 3, Kohli at 4, Sehwag at 5, Rohit at 6.

The West Indies Tests weren't in tricky conditions.


Dravid rated the conditions as some of the hardest he has batted in.
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Re: India the Future?

Postby greyblazer » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:34 pm

Last year the pitches in WI were bowler friendly and if I am right they didn't use Kookaburra. So the conditions weren't easy for batting.
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Re: India the Future?

Postby andy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:43 pm

they should play amit mishra as a batsman, given his performances in england :P
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Re: India the Future?

Postby greyblazer » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:44 pm

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Re: India the Future?

Postby ddb » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:08 pm

Argh.

If losing 8-0 away from home isn't shock enough, you wonder what will be?

England winning easily vs India in India?
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Re: India the Future?

Postby Red Devil » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:13 pm

ddb wrote:Argh.

If losing 8-0 away from home isn't shock enough, you wonder what will be?

England winning easily vs India in India?


could happen at this rate :hide
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Re: India the Future?

Postby andy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:57 pm

so sehwag to skipper the side in the final test.....but who would do it, if dhoni was to step down......
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Re: India the Future?

Postby Red Devil » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:04 pm

cricketfan90 wrote:so sehwag to skipper the side in the final test.....but who would do it, if dhoni was to step down......


Zak, as an interim measure until Kohli has established himself
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Re: India the Future?

Postby Cynomis » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:22 pm

Stats for India team for the test series so far are shocking.

Batting averages:
Tendulkar 41
Aswin 36
--------
Dravid 28
Kohli 27
Gambir 24
Dhoni 20
Sehwag 20
Laxman 17

Bowling averages:
Z Khan 12/343
Yadav 12/392
-------------
Aswin 4/298
I Sharma 4/324

If Aswin's primary job is that of a bowler, he has certainly failed although he is now among several dozen touring off-spinners who fared miserably in Australia. Oja deserves a chance. How much worse could he be?

Dhoni will not be missed in Adelaide, certainly not his batting contributions or his tactical skills. He kept the wickets better than he did in England.

India does not have many alternative choices for the final test. Oja may replace V Kumar. You may replace I Sharma with Aswin. R Sharma will probably take the place of Laxman. No solutions for Sehwag, Gambir, and Dravid.

If there is one Indian player who can leave the tour with some pride, that man is Yaduv. Barring a couple of bad spells, he has done well, beating expectations.
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Re: India the Future?

Postby alfie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:07 am

IndusCreed wrote:
alfie wrote:The natural reaction to a heavy series defeat is to call for blood. But just getting shot of all the oldies at once doesn't strike me as a very smart move.

While I agree in essence with that statement, its hardly the case here, I am afraid. We had another heavy series defeat against English not too long ago. Besides, Most would agree that SRT and to some extent Dravid can still be of some help. But a change-in-guard process needs to start. Now!

We have been too patient for too long :)


Totally agree about starting immediately , Indus.

Just saying it would be better to do it a player at a time : something like Rohit for VVS now , Dravid to perhaps follow , for whoever looks the best bet , next year , and (sadly) eventually even Sachin must leave the stage :(

Of course if Sehwag has lost it (against proper bowling) , as I fear he may have , things will be even more complicated. Possibly a case for having a look at Rahane sooner rather than later?
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Re: India the Future?

Postby meninblue » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:12 am

IndusCreed wrote:
sportbloggeradi wrote:It is their performance which makes me feel we need Sachin, V V S and Rahul. They still are quality material and the best available specialist batsmen even at their respective ages.

As for the 100th ton, it's the fans and media who are building it. Not Sachin's fault really that he has made 99.

Dravid did well in England and against West Indies. He has a bad tour now and we suddenly jump on him as scapegoat. What about Sehwag and Gautam ?

I think I mentioned in my post that these players are class Cricketers and will perform given enough chances. I can see that statement of mine to be true even when these guys are in their late 40s. When do we have them off the team? Never?

About that 100 of 100s - I never said it was SRT. But the way things have been built around it, it is bound to affect the best player in the world. I would rather have SRT to forget about it (if possible) and enjoy whatever Cricket time he's got left.

What about Sehwag and Gautam ? In the thread titled "who should be dropped for the 4th test", I personally picked both Sehwag and Gautam to be dropped along with VVS. Not Dravid :) It was only after reading Mr. ddb's post that I realized that I might have shot both the openers :D Nonetheless, if we had options, I would happily stick to my decision still. If SRT is willing to open and we are brave enough to plug in a new face with him, let's do it. Sehwag, in particular, has been awful! Let's get rid of him at least!

I have a lot of respect for Dravid as a Cricketer but his days in the sun might be coming to an end (soon, if not immediately). I cannot say it more clearly than this :thumb


37 for a specialist batsman who fields in slips for most of his batting career, someone who is not a part of ODI and T20 squad in last few years , gets enough time to recover and relax.

Rahul is one of the slowest runner in our team, but he is fit. He showed in England he can still stand on wicket for long enough time. So he is fit as a specialist batsman , although not as agile as one would like to benchmarked as a fielder (slip). Also he is no more a regular feature of Indian ODI squad, except when he got selected for England ODI last year. So like Laxman he gets time to relax and recover the toll of test cricket on the body.

Sachin is one of the fittest Indian cricketer. He played entire 50 overs against Saffers in ODI and there were lots of 1's, 2's that he ran for himself as well as partners at other end. He continues to score in this series as well. So he is fit. Also, i am aware he practices a lot in nets even after tours. So fitness is not a matter of concern to him. What's the big deal about age then. If 40 years specialist batsmen are more fit than a 30 years specialist batsman (Gautam has gone through more injuries than Sachin, Dravid and V V S), then why are we bringing age into perspective. It's not as if they have crossed 41.

Sachin, V V S and Rahul will be prudent to retire when age catches them and they realize they are not fit enough to be selected as specialist batsmen. I doubt they will play beyond 41.

As for performances, yes Laxman has been patchy with a good series following with a bad one or two, then good series again...

Dravid played well against West Indies and England followed by the bad performance against Aussies right now. So i don't think he should be dropped.

Sachin had a bad England series but he i think is our major scorer in this series.

As i said, gradual transition is needed, but these players can still continue to be fit at their ages and score runs.
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Re: India the Future?

Postby IndusCreed » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:33 am

alfie wrote:Totally agree about starting immediately , Indus.

Just saying it would be better to do it a player at a time : something like Rohit for VVS now , Dravid to perhaps follow , for whoever looks the best bet , next year , and (sadly) eventually even Sachin must leave the stage :(

Of course if Sehwag has lost it (against proper bowling) , as I fear he may have , things will be even more complicated. Possibly a case for having a look at Rahane sooner rather than later?

Mr. alfie,

Absolutely agree. Phasing out players one by one is the way to go rather than inexperienced guys getting crucified on fast pitches in away series :D And yes, eventually SRT will have to depart too!

I think, in the coming year or two will see a lot of amazing players say goodbye (or made to say goodbye)!

PS. Yeah, Sehwag needs to depart too. At least from our Test side. There are some probables like Rahane and Mukund but they would take time to establish themselves. Between the two, I would pick Rahane!
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