Spot Fixing?

What's buzzing in the world of cricket....

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby sussexpob » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:05 pm

Could the England players sue as a team, or would they have to do it as individuals?


Can the England cricket team sue? My understanding of law is that you can't sue a group of individuals. The ECB may be able to sue but not the England cricket team.



In general anyone who can prove that the statement related to them can sue. The ECB can sue, and it doesnt matter that they were neither named in the piece, or that Butt had no intention to refer to the ECB.... the test is "where the reasonable man and reader, having any necessary special knowledge attached to the background of the statement, reasonably understand that the words related to the claimant"... ie the ECB.

You look at his words, he specifically mentions some players.... and in context, it would be impossible to attribute "spot fixing" as some kind of dealings that the ECB were playing their part in.... it is an accusation of a crime that the ECB would have no knowledge or interest in persuing, indeed quite the opposite, so the statement almost certainly has no bearing to the ECB. It does however open up the gates for other Tortous action for the ECB, as they could argue the malcious falsehood of the statement had a knock on effect of reducing financial income, seeing as though attendances for subsequent series and interest in the sport has dropped.... as I mentioned earlier, I think malicious falsehood or something like that, but Im no great expert on the law of Tort.

As for the players, they have the same problem.... that the statement relates to them. This is much easier, as even though they have not been named, the accusation is levelled at their group. The fact he mentioned no names increases the likelyhood of a given player being able seperately to persue an action, but the problem is if they sue as a group of players, it becomes less likely.

For instance, you have 11 players play in that match, and 11 players that sue, do you think it would be fair to attribute the defaming comment to all 11 when he has said some? How could all 11 players attribute the quote to themselves when the comment itself was restricted to under that? Then again, if Butt did not disgress on detail, then why should a judge? All 11, with no names mentioned, are tarred with the same wide brush.... but its a technical impossibilty that the defaming action covers all.....

Obviously you can start to see why these actions are a long and drawn out affair..... I really wont want to be a judge deciding on this case if it ever come to court, you can guarantee that this one will end up in the appeal dock before long.

The most important aspect is the damage to the players/ECB. To sue for defamation, one must prove their reputation has been dented. This can mean from a financial point of view, or the fact that the defamatory statement has made the person become outcast or shunned from people in society.... usually it would require a financial impact, but as this is a case of "Slander per se" due to the defamtory comment inferring actions of an illegal and criminal nature, it is not needed to prove financial loss.

The ECB as a corporation do not possess quantifiable feelings, and as a trader their reputation will not be affected as I said above.... as for the players, I do believe that ten of those subject to the accusation started the next match, so the argument that they have been socially or even proffessionally damaged or shunned never really lifts of the ground..... especially when the media havent taken the accusation seriously and got the boot in.

So as I already said.... literally no point spending a 7 figure sum in following this one all the way.
Last edited by sussexpob on Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 40208
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby SaintPowelly » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:09 pm

there was an article in the Daily Mirror this morning comparing Cricket with WWE Wrestling :d'oh:

talking about fans attending events with a fixed outcome, can't get much worse than that !!
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18527
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby sussexpob » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:18 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:there was an article in the Daily Mirror this morning comparing Cricket with WWE Wrestling :d'oh:

talking about fans attending events with a fixed outcome, can't get much worse than that !!


Slightly less homo erotic than the WWE
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 40208
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby SaintPowelly » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:29 pm

sussexpob wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:there was an article in the Daily Mirror this morning comparing Cricket with WWE Wrestling :d'oh:

talking about fans attending events with a fixed outcome, can't get much worse than that !!


Slightly less homo erotic than the WWE


more violence aswell..with Trott and Riaz :lol:
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18527
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby Aidan11 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:37 pm

What would you do in this situation?

Imagine you are a club cricketer (there may be a few on this board). You go out to bat at the start of the innings and a guy in the crowd offers you £100 to get out in the first over. What would you do?

a) Get yourself out and take the money. It's only a club game after all and you will have plenty of other innings.

b) Tell him where to stick his money. Honesty is the best policy.
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48590
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby SaintPowelly » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:41 pm

Aidan11 wrote:What would you do in this situation?

Imagine you are a club cricketer (there may be a few on this board). You go out to bat at the start of the innings and a guy in the crowd offers you £100 to get out in the first over. What would you do?

a) Get yourself out and take the money. It's only a club game after all and you will have plenty of other innings.

b) Tell him where to stick his money. Honesty is the best policy.


A) But because as a club cricketer I wouldnt be getting paid and I would need the money..anyone that says different is lying

But if I was being paid for playing cricket and was offered 'extra' money - then I would say NO
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18527
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby Aidan11 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:44 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:
Aidan11 wrote:What would you do in this situation?

Imagine you are a club cricketer (there may be a few on this board). You go out to bat at the start of the innings and a guy in the crowd offers you £100 to get out in the first over. What would you do?

a) Get yourself out and take the money. It's only a club game after all and you will have plenty of other innings.

b) Tell him where to stick his money. Honesty is the best policy.


A) But because as a club cricketer I wouldnt be getting paid and I would need the money..anyone that says different is lying

But if I was being paid for playing cricket and was offered 'extra' money - then I would say NO


This is why I specifically stated club cricket. Is it not double standards someone to be shocked at the Pakistan allegations, then do the same thing themselves at club level?
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48590
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby SaintPowelly » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:48 pm

Aidan11 wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:
Aidan11 wrote:What would you do in this situation?

Imagine you are a club cricketer (there may be a few on this board). You go out to bat at the start of the innings and a guy in the crowd offers you £100 to get out in the first over. What would you do?

a) Get yourself out and take the money. It's only a club game after all and you will have plenty of other innings.

b) Tell him where to stick his money. Honesty is the best policy.


A) But because as a club cricketer I wouldnt be getting paid and I would need the money..anyone that says different is lying

But if I was being paid for playing cricket and was offered 'extra' money - then I would say NO


This is why I specifically stated club cricket. Is it not double standards someone to be shocked at the Pakistan allegations, then do the same thing themselves at club level?


I can see where your coming from but no- I would be taking a risk with nothing to lose, they had it all and threw it away

I also wouldn't of committed fraud because you can't bet on club games and its not illegal to deliberatly get out

it would be MASSIVELY immoral
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18527
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby sussexpob » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:52 pm

I value my wicket at more than a hundred quid.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 40208
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby yuppie » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:54 pm

I guess it would also come down to how you would feel about betraying your team mates.
2009 New Zealand Vs India Tests Prediction Guru
Prem final standings prediction guru
2010 AFL Footy Tipping Champion
User avatar
yuppie
 
Posts: 15613
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Lund, Sweden
Team(s) Supported: Australia, Nottingham Forest, Carlton.

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby SaintPowelly » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:07 pm

In retrospect Im not sure that I would - If someone offered me £100 to score an own goal I don't think I would
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18527
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby Alviro Patterson » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:25 pm

I'd ask for someone else to open the bat, my mind wouldn't be in the right place to face the opening bowling.
"Stats are there to be broken" Dominic Cork
"They took all our players away, banned our captain and we still came away with a ten-wicket victory" Jason Gillespie
"You won't get anywhere slouching about half out of bed" Geoffrey Boycott


2011-12 Oz vs India Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Oz vs SA Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Bang vs WI combined FL guru | 2013 Friends Life T20 FL guru | 2015 The Ashes FL guru | 2015 County Championship D2 FL guru | 2016 Womens WT20 FL guru| 2016 Eng v Pak Tests FL guru | 2017 Kia Super League FL guru | 2018 County Championship D2 FL guru
User avatar
Alviro Patterson
 
Posts: 17868
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Hararefax
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Bradford City FC

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby ddb » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:26 pm

I'd probably try to play good and get out for a duck anyway. :hide
Intent

IPL 2009 Prediction League Champion 2009-10 footy prediction guru Joint 2010 footy final placings guru 2010 Eng vs Bang combined prediction guru 2011 World Cup Fantasy
User avatar
ddb
 
Posts: 19376
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:54 pm
Location: Kohlism

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby sussexpob » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:52 pm

ddb wrote:I'd probably try to play good and get out for a duck anyway. :hide



See ddb, and heres me thinking we have nothing in common :thumb
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 40208
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby Alviro Patterson » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:51 pm

Speaking of betting, William Hill do overs and unders on wides, the number is set at 15.5 at 5/6.

1st ODI (I assume the market wasn't 15.5 wides as it was a 41 over game)
Akmal: 9 wides
Davies: 5 wides
Total wides: 14

2nd ODI
Davies: 5 wides
Akmal: 13 wides
Total wides: 18

3rd ODI
Davies: 8 wides
Akmal: 8 wides
Total wides: 16

4th ODI
Davies: 4 wides
Akmal: 14 wides
Total wides: 18
"Stats are there to be broken" Dominic Cork
"They took all our players away, banned our captain and we still came away with a ten-wicket victory" Jason Gillespie
"You won't get anywhere slouching about half out of bed" Geoffrey Boycott


2011-12 Oz vs India Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Oz vs SA Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Bang vs WI combined FL guru | 2013 Friends Life T20 FL guru | 2015 The Ashes FL guru | 2015 County Championship D2 FL guru | 2016 Womens WT20 FL guru| 2016 Eng v Pak Tests FL guru | 2017 Kia Super League FL guru | 2018 County Championship D2 FL guru
User avatar
Alviro Patterson
 
Posts: 17868
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Hararefax
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Bradford City FC

PreviousNext

Return to International Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron