Spot Fixing?

[D/L]

One has to feel sorry for Amir, who was merely following the dictates of the captain Butt...

What's your evidence for that, or is it merely speculation, Ahmose?

[englandmad666]

This whole affair gets worse....afridi has stuck the knife into one of his own team mates -

Shahid Afridi, the Pakistan captain, was dismissive of Hameed. "I think he is 30, 31, but mentally he is 15, 16," he said after the Twenty20 at Cardiff. "I don't know with who he was sitting or in which situation he gave this message, I don't know but we have known him for a long time and we can expect anything from him. He has been doing these type of things a lot of time."

And when pressed on whether Hameed was unreliable he added: "Yeah, the people know which type of character he is."

Pakistan are imploding on the world stage and for everyone to see....this is getting sad but more horrorfying with such accusations and it seemingly a path that could lead back to the 2004 icc semi finals...oh dear oh dear, is it wrong to say after this tour maybe pakistan should be suspended from international cricket whilst this investigation is complete?

[Chris de Burgh]

Pakistan cricket is imploding yet again. They have been their own worst enemies in the past and unfortunately this talented bunch of players look likely to be known for their off field antics instead of their on field ones. A crying shame as this doesn't look like dying down soon and it has the potential to get only worse for pakistani cricket and cricket in general.

[Ahmose]

One has to feel sorry for Amir, who was merely following the dictates of the captain Butt...

What's your evidence for that, or is it merely speculation, Ahmose?

None at all DL but it is a 50/50 thingy in his case; in the first instance he could very well be an accomplice who knew very well what he was doing but on the other hand a bowler has to follow the dictates of a captain. We may be speculating currently but I am sure a full reports would be made available soon.

[englandmad666]

Just been watching SSN they show akmals drops and that missed run out from the sydney test match and although he hasnt been cited or suspended or anything he looked guilty as sin, this is the problem we have now...can any mistakes in the field be viewed as mistakes??

[sussexpob]

One has to feel sorry for Amir, who was merely following the dictates of the captain Butt...

What's your evidence for that, or is it merely speculation, Ahmose?

None at all DL but it is a 50/50 thingy in his case; in the first instance he could very well be an accomplice who knew very well what he was doing but on the other hand a bowler has to follow the dictates of a captain. We may be speculating currently but I am sure a full reports would be made available soon.

Ive said it earlier in this conversation, but I wil rephrase it. What influence does Butt really have over Amir?

Amir is the star player, he is the first name on the team sheet as far as the selectors are concerned. Butt on the other hand is a man who is, what, the 3rd captain in as many tests when he was appointed, has been dropped out the team loads of times, has not performed with the bat in this series.... and is in big danger of succoming to the chop after this tour... both as a batsman and captain. His low 30 average is in danger of finding the 20's of his batting woes continue.

The word captain means nothing in terms of Butt. Steve Waugh may have been able to influence players under his control, but I very much doubt that Butt's position in the dressing room could have any sway over his troops.

I mean, what could Butt say to Amir to force him? You think he would threaten to use his amazing powers with the selectors and management to bench Amir? You think he would underbowl his star man in an innings as punishment?

Pfft... he even made a sniff of either of these, he would be out the door quicker than lightening!

[D/L]

One has to feel sorry for Amir, who was merely following the dictates of the captain Butt...

What's your evidence for that, or is it merely speculation, Ahmose?

None at all DL but it is a 50/50 thingy in his case; in the first instance he could very well be an accomplice who knew very well what he was doing but on the other hand a bowler has to follow the dictates of a captain. We may be speculating currently but I am sure a full reports would be made available soon.

Before saying publicly that someone may have had a more influential role in any wrongdoing, for example that someone may have coerced others into illegal activities, it is always wise to ensure one has reasonably conclusive evidence, Ahmose.

If one hasn’t, one really shouldn't make such accusations on the (possibly false) basis that they have a 50% chance of being true.

[SaintPowelly]

None of us know any of the Pakistan team personally, so any talk of 'a ringleader or 'bullying' is pure gossip.

[Aidan11]

Just been watching SSN they show akmals drops and that missed run out from the sydney test match and although he hasnt been cited or suspended or anything he looked guilty as sin, this is the problem we have now...can any mistakes in the field be viewed as mistakes??

To be honest, in the test series just gone, there were so many soft dropped catches and fielding errors that a schoolby wouldn't make that I already did wonder about it.

[yorker_129-7]

The problem is that everything now comes under the microscope. When Shoaib dropped Morgan yesterday when England were in a bit of trouble, my mother turned round and said "he's been paid off, then". The thing is Pakistan have never been world-beating fielders, so it's not easy to judge them on that, which applies as much to Kamran Akmal as to Shoaib, Butt or anyone. If they'd been fielding like a Rhodes, Collingwood or Hayden, and then started this, then it'd be more suspicious. But Kamran Akmal, and the rest of the line-up, have always been dodgy at best in the field (at least in my memory).

[SaintPowelly]

The problem is that everything now comes under the microscope. When Shoaib dropped Morgan yesterday when England were in a bit of trouble, my mother turned round and said "he's been paid off, then". The thing is Pakistan have never been world-beating fielders, so it's not easy to judge them on that, which applies as much to Kamran Akmal as to Shoaib, Butt or anyone. If they'd been fielding like a Rhodes, Collingwood or Hayden, and then started this, then it'd be more suspicious. But Kamran Akmal, and the rest of the line-up, have always been dodgy at best in the field (at least in my memory).

The Akmal mis-run out was bizarre though, he stood there with ball in hand and just waited for the batsman to enter the crease.

Which is alot difference to dropping a catch ( although some of the drops looked easy )

[Albondiga]

...I have little sympathy in cheating and believe it should be punished but to risk a career that could have been one of the greatest of all time seems stupid beyond comprehension.

I say "little sympathy" because I see a grey area if either the player or his family were being threatened with their lives; Blackmail is easy to expose if you have the courage but your blackmailers could still be in a position to carry out their threat...

Wise words, as always, Albondiga. There is possibly more to this than meets the eye and which the players implicated dare not reveal. Before bookmaking was made legal in the UK many years ago, the bookmakers had some very unpleasant means at their disposal for collecting their debts. Who knows what pressure these players may be under.

But then they'd have to prove that their families were under threat, which would mean giving evidence in court to convict the blackmailers, which begs the question why they didn't do that in the first place !!

As I said it takes courag to expos blackmail but even if you do get people convicted there may be others who are noy and they may carry out the threat. I've not been watching to much TV --- I have experienced this with drivers of tobacco lorries in my working capacity --- if it's fear rather than greed then the sport really is in trouble.

[SaintPowelly]

If you were in a position that you could blackmail a player with a genuine threat of harming their families, then you would have no need to pay them.

Yasir Hameed said that they could make upto 1.8mil..if I was the 'blackmailer' I wouldn't pay them at all - the threat would be enough.

Thats why I think it is all down to greed, its common knowledge that the Pakistanis don't get paid as much as the English or the Aussies.

[D/L]

If you were in a position that you could blackmail a player with a genuine threat of harming their families, then you would have no need to pay them.

Yasir Hameed said that they could make upto 1.8mil..if I was the 'blackmailer' I wouldn't pay them at all - the threat would be enough.

Thats why I think it is all down to greed, its common knowledge that the Pakistanis don't get paid as much as the English or the Aussies.

I disagree. People operating illegally in this area will have developed a knowledge of the benefits of the “carrot” and the “stick” and when best to employ them.

[medium-pacer]

Greetings all -

First of all PCB and Pak players should apologize specifically to ECB

AS hosts ECB in the spirit of cricket and specifically to keep Pakistan Cricket alive offered the home series privilege to Pakistan

To use hallowed dressing rooms from a gracious host to vitiate that tradition with such heinous actions saddens, shocks and angers any average fan

What ails Pakistan players to be so susceptible to corruption? What worries me more is the deafening silence across the border where temptations are much larger

I have not posted in a long time as I tended to see games getting more meaningless - the odd test was interesting but teams are getting more similar, are not leading to hotly contested games but rather bland fare

Amir in particular and the Pak seam attack in general was an exciting entree in the rather bland fare and now we have the horror of discovering betting cockroaches scurrying through the dish

Nauseating and sadly a lament for potential lost

It is difficult to be a cynic and take spot fixing in stride as relatively harmless

Cricket is a sanctuary of hope in this cynical and murky world, and I for one pray that the powers to be have a conscience and cleanup once and for all, this scourge and preserve the pristine purity of this great game for generations to come

What would the Don (quote below) think of what has happened to the game today ?

"If I had to put it into one word? 'Integrity'." BRADMAN'S MOTTO: quote from Lord Harris former England captain and ambassador to India: 'You do well to love cricket, because it is more free from anything sordid, anything dishonorable than any game in the world. To play it keenly, generously, self-sacrificing is a moral lesson in itself, and the classroom is God's air and sunshine. Foster it, my brothers, so that it may attract all who find the time to play it, protect it from anything that will sully it, so that it may grow in favour with all men." And that was my creed, I commend that to everybody."