Spot Fixing?

[Durhamfootman]

However I have no doubt that nothing serious will happen to any Pak player involved in this and no way will the ICC take tough and decisive action in dealing with this.

I think they might this time. The nonsense that is a PCB life ban won't apply because the ICC will get involved in the punishment and for once I can't see the subcon cartel voting down the others.

If Amir has any sense at all, he'll pretend to be really, really thick, really, really naive and really, really vulnerable and try to get away with a couple of years ban (Hershalle style..... one of these days I'll learn how to spell Herschalle) and resume his international career at a later date. Asif could be in real trouble given his past record.

[Durhamfootman]

I saw a Pakistani lawyer on the TV talking about how the sentence for the crimes committed carries a maximum of the death penalty

seems a tad harsh!

yet more twaddle discussed by an ever more voracious media

[GordoninPortsmouth]

However I have no doubt that nothing serious will happen to any Pak player involved in this and no way will the ICC take tough and decisive action in dealing with this.

I think they might this time. The nonsense that is a PCB life ban won't apply because the ICC will get involved in the punishment and for once I can't see the subcon cartel voting down the others.

Hmmm...I would love you to be right but I would never underestimate for one minute the fierceness of the cultural divide that is seemingly the bedrock of international cricket.

[Albondiga]

Someone once said and I quote

" All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing"

I believe I.C.C. to be made up of good men.

[sussexpob]

However I have no doubt that nothing serious will happen to any Pak player involved in this and no way will the ICC take tough and decisive action in dealing with this.

I think they might this time. The nonsense that is a PCB life ban won't apply because the ICC will get involved in the punishment and for once I can't see the subcon cartel voting down the others.

Hmmm...I would love you to be right but I would never underestimate for one minute the fierceness of the cultural divide that is seemingly the bedrock of international cricket.

I think solidarity on the integrity of the game will overrule an cultural ties. For a start it seems that the pakistani media are baying for blood should this be true, so it doubt the actions of the rest of the neutral countries involved will matter

[keshto]

Although most crimes are against religions Sussex, so that's not really an argument is it?

Ok for Asif!

In response to the following......

doesn't everyone get taught at a young age to compete fairly and within the rules. ( to an extent )

Apparently Amir was educated in a small village so the necessities might not be the same as yours, you'd be surprised by how different the education in small villages in Asia and how naive villagers are.

Im saying if he was brought up to be a muslim, and Im under the impression on what is said with the Pakistan team, by Lawson and Woolmer as coaches previously, the team place their faith as a very important aspect of their cricketing preperations....

Therefore you expect that Amir has been exposed to a teaching of what is right and wrong.... and like I said, Gambling is against his religion, he would have been taught that from a young age. So I dont buy this naivity argument really

I don't agree with you on this, it's not as simple as that I am afraid, if it was then all human beings would be saints

[D/L]

...The ICC has singularly failed to deal decisively with throwing, ball tampering, player dissent and performance drug taking. Why would anyone expect them to deal with match fixing?...

Yes, the ICC’s track record when principle has come up against expediency (and protecting their jobs) does not suggest they will deal effectively with this issue either, GIP.

[SaintPowelly]

I think the ICC will get it right this time,

My brother said y/day "fine them and throw them out the game" and he hates cricket.

If people outside the game can see what is right then I have full faith ( I think ) that the ICC will finally get it right

[gollygosh]

Mike
The corruption is endemic - the last disaster in pakistan (the earthquake) - Ive heard that only $1 in ever $6 donated by the international community actually got where it was intended. The rest lined pockets of officials and paid for false invoices etc. Why do you think the UN has had such a problem in getting the international community to donate this time?

These cricketers are simply applying the same approach - if you can make a dollar, do so. "Honour of Pakistan" - "Love of Country" - what a joke! why should these cricketers behave any better than their politicians and their administrators?

I still think it's unfair to draw a correlation between some Pakistani cricketers succumbing to greed, and a corrupt government....

We didn't make overall generalisations about Saffer society when Hansie Cronje and a few other SOuth African cricketers were found out doing much worse - match-fixing. To me, they're two separate issues:

1) spot-fixing in cricket;

2) governmental corruption.

There are so many other unfair comparisons we could make about other countries....

1) Is the number of American athletes, including Justin Gatlin, testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs linked to the poor, incompetent response of the Bush administration to the Katrina disaster?

2) Is the incident of the black West Indian pace bowler, Marlon Black, being beaten up on a WI tour of Australia linked to Australia's poor treatment of black aborigines in the past?

3) Is the non-selection of players like Michael Carberry, Ravi Bopara and Ajmal Shahzad linked to Britain's colonial past in the subcontinent and the Caribbean?

4) Is the death of Bob Woolmer in Jamaica linked to that island's high murder rate?

My answer to all of the above would be 'no', because those are unfair comparisons to make. We also need to consider that while most of those implicated in spot-fixing are Pakistanis, other players from other coutnires have been implicated in the past, including Marlon Samuels from Jamaica and Australians Shane Warne and Mark Waugh. Does this also raise questions about the social and political cultures of Jamaica and Australia?

And as for donations to Pakistan following the floods, Pakistan governmental corruption has little to do with the poor response. As in the case of Haiti, most donations would go thru UN agencies and charities, and little of it would actually be controlled by the Pakistan government. No, the reason why the UN has had such a problem in getting the international community to donate this time has more to do with Pakistan being Muslim, and being demonised in the world press, as the US tries to find an excuse why their campaign is failing in Afghanistan....

I didnt say "a corrupt Government" I said corruption is endemic. I will address each of your recycled points in turn - cos I cant get my pc to show what Ive written EEK!

[DeltaAlpha]

I think the ICC will get it right this time,

My brother said y/day "fine them and throw them out the game" and he hates cricket.

If people outside the game can see what is right then I have full faith ( I think ) that the ICC will finally get it right

I think it's precisely because your brother is outside the game that he can see what's right. He can see the overall picture, while those involved will only see the details they want to see. What's that about "can't see the wood for the trees"?

[gollygosh]

[quote="mikesiva"] I still think it's unfair to draw a correlation between some Pakistani cricketers succumbing to greed, and a corrupt government....]

Im saying that if you want to achieve something in Pakistan you have to "pay" for it. Up to 70% of the Pakistan budget of recent years has been absorbed by the military - that means that "social" items such as hospitals, roads, education hasnt happened. The people have to do what they can to make their lives work - the Pakistani cricketers are no different. They are poorly paid (as cricketers) and it makes sense that they get money or "gifts" where they can. If the whole country operates that way - why should they operate differently?

[gollygosh]

We didn't make overall generalisations about Saffer society when Hansie Cronje and a few other SOuth African cricketers were found out doing much worse - match-fixing. To me, they're two separate issues:

You are the only one linking these items - I draw another "objective" source in comparing Pakistan to other "cricketing" nations - from Transparency International

The 2009 Corruption Perception Index - A list of countries where 1 is perceived to be the least corrupt and the higher the country the more the perception of corruption

1 - New Zealand
8 - Australia
17 - United Kingdome
55 - South Africa
84 - India
97 - Sri Lanka
139 - Pakistan


where do you get off putting the corruption level of SA on a par with Pakistan?

[gollygosh]

2) Is the incident of the black West Indian pace bowler, Marlon Black, being beaten up on a WI tour of Australia linked to Australia's poor treatment of black aborigines in the past?

Seems like a gratuitous racist comment against Australia to me. Funny, I could have sworn that a post by you Mikesiva mentioned that your personal acquaintance Steve Bucknor found Australia to be the most enjoyable country to tour. Or is that as irrelevant as Brendan Nash light coloured expat returning to Jamaica from Australia being told to "Go home, White boy"?

[gollygosh]

3) Is the non-selection of players like Michael Carberry, Ravi Bopara and Ajmal Shahzad linked to Britain's colonial past in the subcontinent and the Caribbean?

Only if you discount Gladstone Small, Nasser Hussain, Saj Mahmood etc. what makes you play the race card here Mike? Let alone being off topic in a major way.

[gollygosh]

4) Is the death of Bob Woolmer in Jamaica linked to that island's high murder rate?

I know journalists have little regard for the truth - but considering the man died from a heart attack, I cant see that the crime rate in Jamaica or indeed Iceland has any relevance. Or did you think the fact that he was the Pakistani coach suddenly made it relevant?