Ashes 2025-26.

[andy]

Potts has had a bad year not just a bad test...his form for Durham this summer was poor too he was thrown under a bus effectively in this game not in the right form to play even fisher would have been a better shout given the form Potts has shown....sadly could be last test Potts plays but I hope not as their is a good bowler in there

[sussexpob]

Potts has had a bad year not just a bad test...his form for Durham this summer was poor too he was thrown under a bus effectively in this game not in the right form to play even fisher would have been a better shout given the form Potts has shown....sadly could be last test Potts plays but I hope not as their is a good bowler in there

Fisher also had an absolute mare in the Lions v Australia A game... I think (without being bothered to check it) he went over 0/100 didn't he?

[sussexpob]

Just checked it anyway.... 0/105.

Complete tour figures of circa 2/250....

He shouldnt have been anywhere near a test match

[Arthur Crabtree]

Potts not getting a bowl in the fourth innings looks terminal.

[andy]

Just checked it anyway.... 0/105.

Complete tour figures of circa 2/250....

He shouldnt have been anywhere near a test match

Neither should have been but fisher finished season in stronger form than Potts...that's not saying much however

[sussexpob]

Made even harder by Stokes being captain. And while there have been clear failures, he's been a better captain than Root or Cook were, and a world better than his fellow allrounders when they were captains. Drop him and you need not only to rebalance the team, but a new captain too. But I suspect Stokes' body will force the issue within the next 18 months, even if he does stay on for now

If we ignore the Ireland/Zimbabwe games Stokes captained as Cook never had the luxury of playing such bad sides, then you are left comparing a win ratio of 1.2 v 1.1 as captain in Stokes favour, a figure that will end equal if England lose a game before they win one in the future. Going deeper into the figures, you find....

53% of Stokes matches were at home, 47% of Cooks matches were at home
46% of Stokes games are against the big three of which 50% are at home/48% of Cooks games are big three opponents, of which 55% were away
23% of Stokes away games are in Asia , 35% of Cooks are

Stokes has never won an Ashes series, Cook has twice
Stokes has never beaten India at home, Cook has
Stokes never beat India away, Cook did....

Cook took 3 out of 4 of the marquee series - He achieved this within 1.5 years of being installed as captain
Stokes has yet to win a marquee series given more than double that time frame

I know which I am taking....

[sussexpob]

Probably worth noting here also that Stokes is 43% loss ratio is very, very high

[Arthur Crabtree]

Cook inherited an all time great England side and contributed to its demise. Stokes inherited a moribund England setup and infused it with a little optimism.

[sussexpob]

The Telegraph have just broken a story saying that Harry Brook was involved in a drunken punch up with a kiwi bouncer on the night of 31/10 while away in NZ, for which the ECB fined him heavily and considered stripping him of his captaincy of the white ball team. The story is clearly true, because it has been followed by a public apology from Brook acknowledging his actions and the fact he let the side down with his behaviour. The story says that Brook was refused entry into a nightclub for being too drunk, and the argument that followed ended with punches thrown.

So we now know what Rob Key was talking about when he mentioned Brook and Bethell drinking before a game in NZ, but I think being so smashed a bouncer tells you to go home and then getting into a physical altercation with him is slightly more than just having a few beers. This is just absolutely crazy. An England captain drunk and incapable the day before a game?

Harry Brook should be stripped of the white ball captaincy immediately, the test vice captaincy immediately, and should serve at least a few match suspension. What frigging example is this to his team? This cannot be tolerated.... the fact Key said that this occurred with the youngest player in the squad in tow makes it even worse.

This is beyond belief. Who the hell at the ECB decided a captain doing this days before an Ashes series should remain in place. Its just mad

[meninblue]

Congratulations to Australia for the comprehensive victory margin of 4-1.

[sussexpob]

Cook inherited an all time great England side and contributed to its demise. Stokes inherited a moribund England setup and infused it with a little optimism.

I think it is really harsh to blame Cook for the decline of that side, it was already painfully obvious by the time England got to 2012 and the home series vs South Africa that the wheels were starting to fall off, and for a series that was touted as one to decide the best team in the world, within a couple of days it was quite clear England were not anywhere near SA's level anymore - That game at the Oval I think South Africa could have easily gone on to shatter batting records and Amla would probably have gone on to beat Lara. They declared at about 700/2 by memory with Amla passed 300 and looking like he could bat for days. The fallout and intra-squad breakdown had started, the toxicity was palpable and Strauss himself had no intention of sticking round to sort it, announcing his shock retirement.

Strauss went. We know now that Trott was on the cusp of a mental breakdown. Flower was already gunning for KP, who was scapegoated (and dropped for a game if memory serves) for the "Doos" text message. Matt Prior's Achilles issues that ended his career were starting to flare up. The big young hope Taylor was dropped after two games amid press leaks about him falling out with senior players, which later turned out to be him being mocked for his size and forced to dance like a circus monkey with midget sized bats and pads. Chris Tremlett was on a surgery table to fix a back issue he never recovered from. Bresnan was the same and couldn't get fit. Panesar had already spiralled into depression and alcoholism, and was sacked by Sussex the following season after p*ssing on a bouncer. Carberry came and went, and has since made accusations about being a victim of racism in the side. Andy Flower said Steven Finn was incapable of bowling at real people, and literally had him in the nets bowling at cardboard cut outs of batsman - it subsequently has come to light Finn was suffering from extreme depression and anxiety, and was sent home by Giles who said described him as unseletable. Graeme Swann was having alcohol issues and was busted for driving drunk - he also had surgery to rebuild his elbow, never recovered, and retired mid-game (he says because he could no longer physically bowl with his elbow)....

Does anyone turn this round? Especially when the fall out after 13-14 was taken over by Downton. Flower was sacked but his influence at the ECB was retained and continued to shadow the side and its decisions in selection and strategy.

[sussexpob]

Through all of that as well, we beat India. One of only three examples between 1987 and 2024 of someone doing that. India lost something crazy like 2 home tests after that series up to 2024. Whatever the context, this is an all time great achievement... you can't really belittle it When Stokes achieves something close to an away win in India, we can entertain the discussion.

Stokes inherited a moribund England setup and infused it with a little optimism.

Even Stokes himself this morning alluded to the fact that initial successes have not developed into longer term success. Cummins' captaincy at times in 2023 showed that some teams struggled initially to know what to do in the face of Bazball, and most teams early on went full defensive mode against it will little success. Gradually over time you get the sense that teams are adapting to it with success, and the results certainly show that. If you ignore the initial period, in the 3 years since 2023 England have a negative win ratio (about 0.8) in that time. This is significantly worse than pretty much every captain this century, with Flintoff being the only one who is worse...And tbf to Flintoff, his short captaincy career involved him going away to India and away to Australia for England's hardest tours.....

And, you know.... he won 1 test out of those series, but it was enough for a series draw in India. Which is again better than Stokes managed.

That 2022 period is really doing some heavy lifting for Baz and Ben. For the last 3 years, we haven't achieved much at all under their guidance, and have lost more than we have won (Pope was in charge for the SL victories, and also won a test in Pakistan before Stokes came back and lost the next two).

[Arthur Crabtree]

Cook was mainly compliant to the decline of the side. It was a big low for England, in many ways.

[Gingerfinch]

I don't know all the stats but apart from this current series I've enjoyed watching the Stokes led England team more than the ones under Cook and in particular Root. More losses maybe (I don't know) but hardly any draws! With that being said, they're standing on thin ice after this recent tour!

[Arthur Crabtree]

Cook inherited an all time great England side and contributed to its demise. Stokes inherited a moribund England setup and infused it with a little optimism.

I think it is really harsh to blame Cook for the decline of that side

Fair enough, if you're not to give him credit for the wins either.

Cook was a poor onfield captain who was limited by his one dimensional defensiveness and who squandered some decent players- like Stokes' bowling, played a full part in KP's demise, was as aloof with the press as the royals, blamed everyone else for defeats and allowed fielders to queue up at the feet of the bowlers and do penance for their mistakes.

Whatever part of this was not his idea, he still acquiesced to it all.

I'd have Stokes in charge of the team every time ahead Cook. It was a huge relief when he stepped down, and from every team he ever captained. I'll be a bit disappointed if Stokes steps down.