Ashes 2025-26.

[sussexpob]

In the end, we are left with a management group who have implemented a very extreme, very specific blueprint for success, and by their own acknowledgement today, it has failed badly, with the trend in performance heading continually downwards. McCullum and Stokes want time to learn, Key want's time to "evolve" the blueprint... but I am struggling to see why any of them should be given time to evolve, not only because of the failures, but because of how obvious some of them are. If it didn't occur to this management team some of these ideas were bad, then what hope do we have for the future?

I mean, what currently can you say the management have got right? Is there anything?

Selection, nope.
Preparation, nope.
Limited overs team, shambles
Test team lost 13 of the last 25 tests and not won any of their high priority series
County cricket has been ignored and continually marginalised.
Player discipline off the field is suddenly a concern
Player fitness seems a concern - none of the bowlers can stay fit for 3 minutes
Team tactics are rigid and extremely basic - bowl short with the ball, smash it long with the bat
No clear idea of the team composition - picking part-timers for senior, specialist roles
No clear pathway. The Lions is a shambles
Coaching is failing - Australian commentators have said all series they are shocked at how bad England's technique are. I say coaching is failing, but in some cases we haven't hired any of them
Grand strategy has failed. Arguably the biggest adaption at domestic level has been the Kookaburra trial, binned after 6 games and produced not a single player this tour who took part.

[Durhamfootman]

I say coaching is failing, but in some cases we haven't hired any of them

and the ones we had were let go

[Arthur Crabtree]

Interesting overview sussex.

Changes to the Aussie squad with Cummins and Lyon out the series. Presume Murphy will play, and Richardson won't. Maybe Smith for Inglis. And a longer shot, Webster for Green.

Steve Smith (capt), Scott Boland, Alex Carey (wk), Brendan Doggett, Cameron Green, Travis Head, Josh Inglis, Usman Khawaja, Marnus Labuschagne, Todd Murphy, Michael Neser, Jhye Richardson, Mitchell Starc, Jake Weatherald, Beau Webster.

Carse likely to be rested for England.

[Durhamfootman]

I heard an anecdote from Matt Roller of Cricinfo .................

He went onto semi-joke, but actually make a serious point, that the literal only thing England have seemingly put any advance planning into was their mid-tour holiday. Knowing which people would be in place as senior coaches was only thought about when they started packing.... but the tee times were booked 15 months before.

turns out this rare piece of proper prep was very important as the media blamestorming shifts from blame at management level and blame at board level to..... oh yes..... players going off on a bender. That's the trouble with players, you can have wonderful theories, tear up the rule book, implement change, innovate, excite and be poised for world domination, only to have the whole thing dragged down because the players can't be trusted to stay sober.... or fit. It's very frustrating. If it wasn't for this, everything would have been *modded* great, so great we'd all have knighthoods. Honestly.... players, eh?

Maybe this is why the mid tour break was so important and so meticulously planned

Perhaps get out of jail free cards are not only for monopoly enthusiasts

[Arthur Crabtree]

The management knowing who should take the blame is what they get paid for!

[sussexpob]

A video now going viral on social media purporting to show an absolutely plastered Ben Duckett in Noosa demanding some passerbys call him a cab home, but he doesn't know where he is or where he is staying. In the short video, he calls one of the people trying to help him a "*modded*" and says hes a nobody. ECB respond they are verifying the video and will not comment further until they know its real.

If found to be true, he should be sent home immediately.

[sussexpob]

Perhaps get out of jail free cards are not only for monopoly enthusiasts

I fail to see how blaming the players being out of control absolves the leadership group from blame, quite the opposite in fact. Its a fundamental responsibility of management to set the culture of a group, to install discipline and accountability, and to install work ethic. This is where all this makes no sense to me - you can't have chaos in a team, bad preparation, bad tactics, bad execution and claim the guy steering the ship is great. All of these are direct accountabilities of the management group, and to get them so wrong is reflective on their ability to manage people. Noosa-gate is a perfect demonstration of this. After Adelaide, the press were raging about your preparation. You refused to play extra matches and go on holiday, something that rankled everyone further...

Any manager with half a brain cell at this point would be aware that his team are going to be under the microscope, going to be heavily scrutinised, followed everywhere. If you insist to go ahead with the plan, you read the riot act to the team... by all means lads, be photo'd re-enacting the beach training scene in Rocky III, help a granny cross the road, go out for dinner with your family, enjoy a coffee or lie in the sun..... but if anyone gets caught drunk or doing anything stupid in public, you get a one way ticket to Heathrow and you don't come back. Simple. Do not bring more sh*t onto your team or colleagues.

It's hard to really put it in a non-insulting way, but what kind of idiots think in that situation that it was acceptable or even remotely sensible to binge drink for 6 days, and the get caught plastered in public? How does it reflect on the team that only 3 people turned up for the voluntary fitness session? Or that it was voluntary in the first place? Or that the drunken football kick about was weirdly not to the point the captain sent everyone the "you must come, no excuses" message to everyone. Or that, as England departed on this inconvenienced, PR nightmare, their team Director decided the best time to bugger off and leave his team was the same time they all were let off the leash!

Like I say, if you need to evolve to the point of realising all this was a major f*ck up, and didn't realise at the time... well, there is no saving you.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I think two months (plus NZ for some) is a long time for young-ish people to be away from home in a group. And part of being a close knit gang is having time together away from the game.

Not to the extent of being dangerously incapable though. Gentle Ben has some history there, so he should know what the risks are. And being intoxicated for long periods will impact performance.

Be interesting for comparison how the Aussies get by when playing in England all summer.

Some of the (England) team may well be more jocks than nerds, so it's necessary the leaders set limits. If the players actually agree to these and break them, then they should be warned then dropped.

[GarlicJam]

I watched the video and didn't think too much of it - maybe I have become desensitised by football players of various codes getting up to far worse.

Watching it, I assumed that the other male - Sam - was a companion of Duckett's - and that Duckett was calling himself a nobody. It makes more sense that he was referring to someone else. It was hard to follow, as I think the person filming was doing so surreptitiously - the camera was pointing at their feet most of the time.

I'd hate to think that he gets sent home for that - dropping him from the team would be a heck of a wack (though his position must be a little shaky anyway).

[alfie]

Probably best to wait until end of series before deciding whose heads are going to roll...

As usual when England sides fail in Australia there will be (already is ) a lot of somewhat hysterical commentary about what is wrong with everything in English cricket (and some of it obviously is) . But I don't subscribe to the rewriting of history to somehow "prove" that everything about the solution to the 21/22 disaster - ie , appointing Stokes and McCullum to try things a different way - was a complete failure.

What they did , initially , was pretty damn effective. With pretty much the same players who had failed to win more than one match in 17 immediately previous , they :

Brought off three excellent run chases against NZ for a 3-0 win.
Followed with an English record chase of 378 against an Indian attack featuring Bumrah Shami Siraj and Jadeja.
Bounced back from a first game loss to SA to win , convincingly , 2-1.
Inflicted a 3-0 defeat on Pakistan in their home country - something never before achieved by any visiting team.

Somehow all these are now deemed "lucky" or irrelevant because of more recent results ? I think they show the merit behind the original ideas this management group brought in. What we ought to be looking at is why they haven't been able to sustain that success. Probably more than one reason.

But going on with the history : First failing was not closing out the NZ series when some overconfidence and careless batting resulted in a loss and drawn series instead of a comfortable win. Culpable then for sure (though if the umpire had called Wagner for an obvious wide at the death it would have been a tied Test at the least )
Second failing was mistakes that cost them the first two Tests of the 2023 Ashes - though the first of those actually owed more to dropped catches than any bad planning. Lord's really was the classic example of not taking advantage of a strong position ; and it should have been a wake up call for everyone. Maybe it was because they then came back to draw the series - and surely would have won it if not for unpatriotic Manchester weather. People were (and are even more so now in hindsight) annoyed that they didn't win the series ; but a bit unfair not to give credit for their achievement in bouncing back from that 0-2 start , is it not ?

And then , yes , it started to stutter. A bad loss in India - nothing new , but still disappointing. More wins at home - and even success in NZ for the first time for ages - balanced by a reverse in Pakistan when spin friendly pitches caught them off guard ; and a careless dead rubber loss to Sri Lanka . And finally failing to wrap up a series win at home against India (though again one might note that final loss owed much to the injury enforced absence of Stokes and the injury to Woakes that left them playing with ten men)

There were a few unforced errors in there. "Wildcard" selections like Hull (remember him ?) ; a little too much faith in Bashir ; most damningly the choice of Bethell , who'd hardly played at all for some time , for that decisive Test against India - though after his decent efforts in NZ , can anyone honestly say they expected him to freeze the way he did at the crucial moment ? A lot I for one didn't like about selection choices ; but most even on here seemed to agree in advance of this tour that they had the right top seven and therefore a better chance than usual in Australia. And obviously , it hasn't worked.

One serious factor jumps out . Since that 2023 win at The Oval we have seen the departure of Broad, Anderson, Bairstow, Woakes, Moeen - and now Wood. More than half the team , and a wealth of experience. Plenty of new talent in and around in place ; but perhaps the fact that outside of Root and Stokes only the regular whipping boys Pope and Crawley have had a great deal of experience in away Tests (and indeed any at all in Australia) might have something to do with a collective failure to perform anywhere near their best across these three matches ? Not absolving the leadership of all responsibility ; but maybe explains why what worked initially seems to have gone South in a bit of a hurry. Does that mean the current leaders can't refine their methods and get back on the horse ? Maybe ; maybe not.

Enough for now. As has been said by others , the last match was a lot closer than the first two so maybe we will see further improvement in Melbourne. Hope it does because I have to live with the local papers crowing and simultaneously showering (well earned) praise on Australia while sneering mercilessly at England for failing to deal with them. Whatever happens it probably won't make much difference to peoples' views on Stokes and McCullum - though possibly some on whether the latter continues in his post. But it would be nice for the tourists flying in on long planned holidays if they could witness a bit of success.

Two sleeps to go. Good a time as any to wish all on here a Merry Christmas Stay safe and enjoy it with your loved ones...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Spirited counter argument! Happy Xmas Alfie!

And Happy Boxing Day Test.

Bethell comes in for Pope and Archer is out the series. Disappointing for the latter after a good Test in Adelaide. Going to miss his runs! Atkinson returns and probably a reprieve for Carse. Hope Bethell shows the class for which the selectors have stuck their neck out so far.

Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Jacob Bethell, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes (capt), Jamie Smith, Will Jacks, Gus Atkinson, Brydon Carse, Josh Tongue.

WIll we see Bashir for England again!

[Arthur Crabtree]

So neither Wood nor Archer made it to the back end of the series.

[sussexpob]

I watched the video and didn't think too much of it - I'd hate to think that he gets sent home for that - dropping him from the team would be a heck of a wack (though his position must be a little shaky anyway).

Have to remember that this is the third consecutive tour of Australia that has ended with discussions about drinking. Ben Stokes himself missed a whole Ashes tour to Australia after being banned for an incident while intoxicated, and Ben Duckett was sent home from that same tour after a drunken incident where he threw a pint over a senior team-mate - the result ended with a player curfew. And last time out it was the same, with the impression even Chris Silverwood was drinking himself to oblivion... the tour ended with police being called to break up a 6am drink session.

Even isolated to this tour, its just incredibly dim-witted to be caught in such a situation. The team is under scrutiny and you have personal history of indiscipline - if you want to drink yourself to oblivion, do it in the hotel bar in private.... don't end up in the street shouting at someone to call you a taxi because you are so drunk you can't operate your own phone, then call the guy a pr*ck...

[sussexpob]

Does that mean the current leaders can't refine their methods and get back on the horse ? Maybe ; maybe not

Let's just take an example at this point - Key's view that only express pace bowling can win you series at the elite level. The whole side has been shaped around this principle, 6 rounds of the CC were adapted in an attempt to prove his theory right, selections have been based on finding pace..... Yesterday, he basically admitted he was wrong, citing Boland and Neser's lower pace bowling successes as a key element of Australian success.

So, after 3.5 years planning to this moment, it took 3-0 down in the series for Rob Key to realise something I have known for 35 years . It took Rob Key 3.5 years to realise that simply making up opinions that are easily countered by objective facts might not be sensible. It took a man who played in tests against Glenn McGrath in Australia and was taken apart 3.5 years to realise that "hitting the seam hard" is a pretty good tactic, even at 80mph. Interesting, because I said the exact same thing a long time ago, Rob. Is this the evolution we are talking about? We should be excited that the leadership of the time "might" evolve to the point of accepting objective fact?

I would be more inclined to suggest someone who didn't know the ABCs of test cricket in the first place shouldn't be entrusted any further with the strategic guidance of our whole game, but there we go...

[alfie]

Does that mean the current leaders can't refine their methods and get back on the horse ? Maybe ; maybe not

Let's just take an example at this point - Key's view that only express pace bowling can win you series at the elite level. The whole side has been shaped around this principle, 6 rounds of the CC were adapted in an attempt to prove his theory right, selections have been based on finding pace..... Yesterday, he basically admitted he was wrong, citing Boland and Neser's lower pace bowling successes as a key element of Australian success.

So, after 3.5 years planning to this moment, it took 3-0 down in the series for Rob Key to realise something I have known for 35 years . It took Rob Key 3.5 years to realise that simply making up opinions that are easily countered by objective facts might not be sensible. It took a man who played in tests against Glenn McGrath in Australia and was taken apart 3.5 years to realise that "hitting the seam hard" is a pretty good tactic, even at 80mph. Interesting, because I said the exact same thing a long time ago, Rob. Is this the evolution we are talking about? We should be excited that the leadership of the time "might" evolve to the point of accepting objective fact?

I would be more inclined to suggest someone who didn't know the ABCs of test cricket in the first place shouldn't be entrusted any further with the strategic guidance of our whole game, but there we go...

I really don't think this failed tour is primarily a result of just concentrating on pace bowling ! If prime Anderson/Broad were available for the series I have no doubt they would have come - and actually done quite well on the pitches encountered for the first two games. But obviously they weren't.

But I do agree Key has had a little too much influence on a number of things : would have preferred him to back off a bit and let his appointed team leaders work with whoever was selected for each game rather than try to plan too rigidly for events several years in the future. Of course I suppose he would then cop the usual criticism for not looking ahead when the team failed to get a result in Australia...

Will be happy to see Key step aside - could Alec Stewart be coaxed into taking on the job ? And perhaps the whole selection set up undergo changes - with coach and captain consulted but others less intimately connected with the playing group making the actual decisions. More based on form and less on hunches...though I suppose if that were always followed we might never have seen Trescothick or Vaughan at Test level so what do I know ?

Anyway I still favour the idea of sticking with Baz and Ben to see if they can turn this ship around rather than ripping it all apart and starting again from scratch. Others will disagree which is their right. Anyway not up to me, or any of us on here , is it ? Whatever happens going forward I will continue to watch and hopefully enjoy because there are more important things in life than getting steamed up over sporting events.

Would be nice if they do get it right for the next Ashes though