Indian Cricket Thread

[andy]

Shubman Gill is now the official vice captain in 50 and 20 over cricket and it appears SKY is the new t20 captain, Hardik has slipped way down the pecking order

[meninblue]

Indian Fab 4 in Tests

Sachin 53.78
Rahul 52.31
VVS 49.37
Sehwag 49.34

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Like most batters, Chet too declined during the end phase and his average kept falling from 49. Virat too is clearly on a decline since few years and Virat is 35 years now and is on decline in tests since 2019?. His decline has started quite early. I won't be surprised if his test battign average falls below 45.

Virat 48.74
Chet 43.60

What is more concerning is that even after playing so much spin in India, nobody after Fab 4 could play spin as good as they did. The many qualities required to play big innings is also another concern. India have simply not produced batsmen like Fab 4 and it has been more than two decades that the Fab 4 started playing. The board, selectors, think tank are more busy in the IPL and T20 format and earnign huge profits. No wonder the Fab 4 have not been replaced by even one quality batsman. It's sad but stupid to expect soemthing to happen what hasn't happened for more than 2 decades. The reality is different than hopes and wishes.

[Arthur Crabtree]

My impression is there has been a movement towards producing result pitches in India since about 2010, which may have had an impact on those figures.

[meninblue]

My impression is there has been a movement towards producing result pitches in India since about 2010, which may have had an impact on those figures.

Not just statistically (career average) but to me Virat cannot dominate the spinners the way Sehwag and Sachin did for so long. VVS also was a better player of spin than Virat. And those batsmen faced Murali and Warne to name just top 2 spinners. I do not have that confidence in these new age batsmen than what I had in Fab4.

If the Indian batsmen have to be considered as good as the Fab 4 they have to show that statistically as well as subjectively. There is no hunger for big innings or innings which deserve appreciation.If Virat thinks he should be compared with Fab 4 then they do have setup a benchmark in tests which he needs to be mindful of. Else get compared to the likes of Chet, Ajinkya Rahane, Souray Ganguly, Gautam Gambhir and others who are not in class of Fab 4.

The situation is so hopeless now that I don't even hswith the TV set on when Virat is batting even if I am at home and have free time. I personally never switched off when Sehwag and Sachin played spin and the way VVS and Rahul played Warne and Murali the great spinners. There is a difference in quality in test batting of today even against lesser skilled spinners imo.

I thought Virat would be the one, but then he declined so much and the problem is that his decline has started far too early. Joe Root plays spin well than Virat does and both must be of same age.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Jaiswal has made a good start.

Times change, players have different priorities. Golden ages are what they are because they are rare.

[meninblue]

Jaiswal has made a good start.

Times change, players have different priorities. Golden ages are what they are because they are rare.

Indeed, a great start Arthur. Debut at 21 years age, has an excellent run in test.

Scored 161 runs at Perth.

[meninblue]

38 years old Ashwin announces that today was his last day as an Indian cricketer in all formats at the international level.

Legend cricketer. Served Indian cricket for 13 years. Great spin bowler and a very handy batsman. Well played, Ash

[Arthur Crabtree]

Significant cricketer for me because of when he arrived, at the end of the doosra era. He showed it is still possible for a spinner to operate at the top of the international game without throwing. And for a finger spinner to turn it both ways legitimately. Hope he lives a good life beyond the game.

Nice to retire at 38.

[bigfluffylemon]

Did not see that coming mid series. Seems odd timing, but sometimes you know your time is up.

A great player in a great Indian team - I have him in my all time India XI.

[sussexpob]

Did not see that coming mid series. Seems odd timing, but sometimes you know your time is up

According to Rohit Sharma, Ashwin informed him that he was going to retire after the NZ series because he wasn't happy with his declining performances. Rohit managed to persuade him against his own better judgement that he should go to Australia, but after two games carrying the drinks and one game bowling without much threat, Ashwin went back to him and informed him he didn't want to play in the reminder of the series.

Must be something about Adelaide killing spinners..... Graeme Swann also kicked it in mid-series after a bad match in Adelaide.

[meninblue]

Did not see that coming mid series. Seems odd timing, but sometimes you know your time is up.

A great player in a great Indian team - I have him in my all time India XI.

Yes, this was not well planned and he deserved a proper send-off test. It is surprising given the timing, but imo it has come at the right time for Team India. Sadly Virat even after being poor for 4 out of 5 series is not retiring but Ashwin is taking the NZ loss seriously. Rohit too continues to play. Hats off to Ashwin. Giving away the spot to young talent as soon as the time and perfromance was not on his side.

Following are key reasons imo:

1. His performance in The NZ homes series in which NZ had a historic win was a major setback for him. Being a specialist Indian spinner, and a very experienced one, he was one of those expected to give performance worthy of the player of the series or a very good one which would break the NZ batting lineup.

2. In Australia tour, he and Jaddu and Washington are being rotated. Not the first time Ashwin is not a first choice spinner overseas. Kuldeep Yadav is also 30 and another option who

3. The next test series for India is a 5 test series between England and India in England. He may not have made the squad because Washington and Jaddu in recent series versus NZ out-bowled Ashwin and was also contributing runs. Enough to carry two spinners for England tour. Even if they take 3 spinners considering it is a long tour, only 1 will play in most matches. Washington Sundar is 25 and the right time to be a regular for Test - hopefully he manages to avoid injuries. Jaddu also can go through another cycle of WTC. Kuldeep Yadav who is 30 was also there in Bangladesh and NZ squad. He has played tests for India.

The next test series for India is in Oct 2025 at home. It is a 2 test series versus WI in India.

Then in Nov India tour SA, where only 1 spinner will play.

So many matches to be missed, even selection is not guaranteed in squad.

4. He is already 38.

With the combination of the above 4 and maybe something else too which only he is aware off, it is good one young talent can be developed as soon as one legend realized there is no point in delaying retirement.

[meninblue]

Some immediate concerns for India:


Captaincy:
Sack Rohit for Sydney test. Let Jasprit be the new test format captain.

Spin:
Identify a skilled off-spinner and develop him for test format.Washington should improve his spin bowling skills meanwhile.

Do everything to get Kuldeep fit. He is skilled. Should lead the transition in spin bowling from Ashwin and Jaddu to a new trio of spin options for Indian wickets.Hopefully he will grab the opportunity.

Identify and develop spinners who bowl between 75kph and 87 kph allowing the ball to do various tricks. Fool the batsmen iin flight and also spins even on wickets which offer less spin. Bowlers who have skill to pick wickets outside Asia.
Stop picking spinners who bowl at 90kph to 105 kph and whose slower balls are 90 kph. The spinner has to bowl at speed which enhances spin and ability to trick the batsman in flight. We don't want more spinners who struggle outside Asia.

Opener:
A proper test opener. Not a makeshift one like Rohit. Sehwag was also a makeshift opener but he was a rare one. It would be better to go for a proper opener who bats in opening position in age level and FC cricket as well.


Pace bowling:
Develop next set of pace bowlers so that the backup options are good when Jasprit and Shami will not be unavailable for any reson whatsoever. In absence of Shami, Jasprit has not got proper support from Siraj, Akash deep and Harshit . It was right to give exposure to Suraj and back him on basis of his performances in red ball before his debut, but he has not made use of the opportunity and backing he has got.


Selection:
Drop KL and Virat who have not performed for 4 years. Develop Shubman, Sarfaraz, Dhruv Jurel and other cricketers who are identified by end of 2024 -2025 Ranji season. Take them for A toyrs and then also for England series which is still 5 months away.

[meninblue]

Gauti is just trying hard to get some fanbase saying they want to fight for the common man. How things have changed since he joined as coach.

Was so arrogant and full of fake agression when he took over. Then under him when the team got whitewashed 0-3 by NZ to end up with worst loss by India in home test ever, he realized it is better to be slightly calm. Now that India are losing this series as well and he is under more criticism, he is trying to get Indian fans behind him. Being a politician he has done this before by being sensational and it looked good as he was in power. But now this drama of fighting for common man talk is getting a lot of slack because everyone has seen over years he is more drama and talks than the actual results.

I sense his contract will not be renewed. Might even get sacked as coach if we fail to get to next WC cycle. It was under him that that NZ series loss happened and India missed the Test championship home points and fialed to make finals even though Indi were favorites till the NZ series loss. Then the Aus series. Now this England series.I would not be surprised if he gets sacked if India fail to qualify for this WC as well.

He is neither achieving any short term goals nor has any plans for long term. Now under fire, stirs up and uses last option of the fight for common man. Should learn to separate his political carrer and career as a coach. Sensationalism won't win test series as he is finding out. This is not politics.

Luckily after the horrendous loss against NZ and the series loss against Aus and at maximum a draw in England series, the Bangladesh series is a boon for team India. Will be back to show arrogance to everyone once he wins against minnows and boast how good he is as a coach.

BCCI think tank too are realizing this gradually. There were diffferences before but now things are getting more exposed. At one point I thought those things should nit have happened, but seeing the way he is going about, I think BCCI think tank are correct.

[Durhamfootman]

so does he have wider political ambitions Adi, or do you mean within the BCCI?

[meninblue]

so does he have wider political ambitions Adi, or do you mean within the BCCI?

To give you an overview, some Indian cricketers and film celebrities have been offered a stint in politics because Indian cricketers and actors/actresses are : 1 famous, popular and need no marketing which is required for new face 2. They have their huge fan bases which have a chance of getting votes.

The other connection is between cricketer marrying actresses. Pataudi, Virat Kohli, Azhar, Zaheer Khan,
West Indian great Viv Richards married Indian actress
Pakistani batsman Mohsin Khan married Indian actress

Azhar had an actress wife as well as political career, is the one who has had the longest stint as politician. He is more than two decades into politics now.

Sachin Tendulkar after retirement was declared as National icon of Election commission of India. Although he did not contest elections, the President nominated him as one of his list of members for Rajya Sabha. Off-course he hardly attended the meetings and his political career was inversely proportional to his cricketing greatness. He is too simple a guy to be involved in politics. Thank god Rahul Dravid did not get into this mess. He too is not cut for this. The first Indian cricketer to get nominated. He was involved in few controversies when the usual rubbish and tantrums were thrown between two parties. Got caught in cross-fire basically but should have known what experiences awaits him in politics.

Navjot Sidhu contested elections.

Virender Sehwag in limited outreach supported a politician.

Ravindra Jadeja's wife is Member of legislative assembly. Last year Jaddu also joined political party.

Rinku Singh married a politician from Uttar Pradesh. She is a Member of Parliament.

In the context of Gauti; he joined politics many years back for ruling party BJP and he won the elections from his constituency. He then quit politics some months before he joined as Indian coach last year.

Jay Shah has been secretary of BCCI, also held a post in Gujarat Cricket association, Chairman of ICC and also a post at Asian cricket council. He is son of Amit Shah . His father is Union home minister of India and holds a very powerful position in Indian politics.

Gautam Gambhir is also from the same party (BJP). He was member of Parliament for BJP. Gauti joined politics many years back for ruling party BJP and he won the elections from his constituency. He then quit politics some months before he joined as Indian coach last year i.e. 2024. Also in 2024 Gauti was coach of KKR, when Shreyas was captain. But he was selected and the reason was under him KKR won IPL. KKR had got Phil Salt and Phil Salt had a tremendous seasons giving outstanding starts for KKR alongside Sunil Narine as opener. Then Shreyas, Venkatesh, Russell, Harshit Rana, Starc all contributed significant that season and KKR won. One must also not forget that Ricky Ponting who had been coach when Shreyas was with Delhi in 2023 moved to Punjab in 2024. He soon got Shreyas Iyer and Punjab after many many years made the finals. One cannot rule out Gauti to go back to BJP. He often gets in direct confrontations with Pakistan cricketers, especially Afridi and then the whole of Indian public is very happy that unlike Virat who tries to keep Pakistan fans happy as well, Gauti is the one who shows his full nationalism and also gets base for his vote during elections. Coaching the Indian Cricket team is his first choice on basis that he has spoken that he has quit politics for his plans in Indian cricket. There was also a talk that he would not be getting a ticket to contest elections in upcoming elections. From what I am aware he also has some business. And he has played so much for India and IPL, has commentary stints, been MP in Indian political system he is not the most worried Indian citizen as to his future. But I do think that he will get back to politics if his contract with Indian Cricket team is not renewed and if the party gives him a ticket to contest elections once again. Or as you put out an totally different and interesting point which never came to my mind until now, there is also a chance his second political career will be within BCCI. After all there is so much politics that happens in selection of various cricket board members and what not.