Eng in Pak, Oct 7-28

[sussexpob]

Carse might get a reprieve if Stokes returns, because it appears it's by no means certain he'll be fit enough to operate as a 3rd seamer

Got it be Ollie pope who goes imo. He's been rubbish for too long. No sure england have taken batting backup though

[Durhamfootman]

I can't see them ditching Pope and everyone else has runs, so if Stokes isn't yet fit enough to bowl a 3rd seamer's overs, then might they be tempted to sacrifice the second spinner and use Root more?

[Durhamfootman]

But if Stokes is fit to bowl fully, then Carse is the like for like replacement.... or is that lite for like?

[meninblue]

Pakistan do not have a home win in 11 tests since last win against SA in 2021

Shan Masood has lost 6 tests as captain.

[meninblue]

Babar, Shaheen and Naseem have been dropped foe reamining tests.

[Arthur Crabtree]

That 823/7 deserves a round of applause. England's third highest total, and best since WWII. Of course the pitch was flat, but it was scored away from home under scoreboard pressure in the kind of conditions where England rarely prosper.

[Arthur Crabtree]

BBC report says Leach's second innings average is 24. Forgot about that peculiarity. Best of any England spinner of the past 50 years.

[sussexpob]

That 823/7 deserves a round of applause. England's third highest total, and best since WWII. Of course the pitch was flat, but it was scored away from home under scoreboard pressure in the kind of conditions where England rarely prosper.

Ball tracking/analytical company Cricviz said it was the 11th worst pitch they had ever measured in any format/level since they started in 2006/07. And apparently a similar stat was also released from Hawkeye (not see the primary source, widely quoted on SM), ranking the overall ball movement as top 10 lowest it had recorded in any game since they first started measuring them in the late mid-90s.

There is flat, and there is this .Something that ranks alongside the most road or roads with a white ball....

[sussexpob]

Interestingly, the top three flattest pitches have all been in Rawalpindi, and in two of them the same thing happened... the game looked dead on draw, Pakistan folded like a pancake in the second innings from nowhere on a pitch that still looked a road. This is now the third time its happened in quick succession.... bat, make a mountain of runs, suddenly cant bat anymore....

I can't remember the exact dateline from the graphic, but one stat in the first test said Pakistan average 17 per wicket in the second innings of games in the last 2-3 years (I think it was that period). That's historically pathetic, for any conditions, and for even the worst teams. The fact they keep being bowled out for nothing on featherbed roads for that historically pathetic scores... hmmmIt almost defies belief (in fact, I should really truth check the stat because even though it was quoted in the test coverage, I can hardly believe it).

For a team that has had their fair share of *cough cough* .... issues, lets just say if I had put a nice 1000 quid wager on Pakistan losing at the point they ended their first innings recently ever single game, I'd be buying my second yacht by now, because for the odds on results in some of these games at day 3- mid day 4 time are going skyhigh.

And that's before you see some of those shots they got out to....

[sussexpob]

Either way, this test will probably be the opposite. Multan is not only the same venue for 2nd test, but they have announced they will be re-using the same pitch.

This happened in Rawalpindi for the BD series, and it went from a 1000/13 first innings pitch test 1 .... to 270/250/172/185.... in test 2.

Free entry on 2 days for every test (and empty stands), can't be bothered to tour the country, using the same crap pitch for two tests.... why are England playing another away series in PAK if this is what is served up.

[Durhamfootman]

perhaps they get paid by the broadcasters to go

[alfie]

Tests in Pakistan are weird. The pitch served up last week didn't need statistical analysis to be recognised as obviously one of the flattest surfaces ever produced for a Test Match : the only surprise was that Pakistan "only" made 550 in their first innings. In this case I was less surprised by their second innings meltdown. After Root and Brook had batted for what seemed like a week it was apparent they had essentially given up (the sub fielder was the only one who looked alive by the end ) and once a wicket went down to the first ball I thought the game would probably be over that evening. Credit to Salman and Jamal for having the guts to see out the day and showing on the last morning that taking wickets was down purely to batsman error because there was still nothing there for the poor old bowlers...

So now we are going to use the same strip , apparently : they must hope it will turn square or start running along the ground and turn the game into a raffle ; but as they've now dropped most of their bowlers (and most experienced , although out of form , batsman) I suspect they are just hoping for Divine Intervention. The danger for England must be that they fall victim to over confidence - something of which they have been guilty now and then over the last couple of years.

Don't know what England will do in selection. Bashir was poor but just replacing him with Stokes would leave them a bit short in the spin department if it is a right Bunsen. Would they need three seamers then ? Depends who is most in need of a rest if they do want to leave one out. Not game to predict , any more than what sort of cricket this game will actually produce ; but I do hope it is a bit more of a contest between bat and ball as well as teams , as that first game was admittedly notable for some remarkable scoring feats but rather monotonous viewing for large parts. OK , as a bowler myself I am perhaps a little biased ;)

[Durhamfootman]

if it is the same strip, then I guess Stokes can come in as a 3rd seamer and still use himself sparingly.

BBC thinks Woakes will make way, but then England would have 3 bang it in seamers, so for me Woakes would offer a different option

[Arthur Crabtree]

Seems Atkinson is now first choice pace bowler.

Why are we not getting a lot of 'leader of the attack' propaganda. Come on ECB.

[sussexpob]

if it is the same strip, then I guess Stokes can come in as a 3rd seamer and still use himself sparingly.

BBC thinks Woakes will make way, but then England would have 3 bang it in seamers, so for me Woakes would offer a different option

Considering Stokes recent injury concerns, can England count on him bowling anything through a test match? I think at this point you pick the team with Stokes as a batter, and if he gives you bonus overs then fine.... but you can't base the composition of the team around him and his bowling, because he's such an injury risk.

Hence why I think I would play Stokes for Pope, and move everyone up. But it wont happen, because Pope's stint as captain very much shows his position in the team is not in doubt.