England tour of India, Jan 25 - March 11

[sussexpob]

In hospital i believe?

Yes, as I mentioned in my post above, he ended up in hospital a couple of days ago during this test, as he apparently drunk a clear liquid left on his seat in an aircraft thinking it was water, and turned out to be something else that poisoned him....

But that doesnt explain why he wasn't picked for the squad for the first two tests.

[sussexpob]

To be fair, England's 292 is the second highest 4th innings score ever by a visiting team in India. Highest successful chase here was 276 by the West Indies in 1987, when they were the best team in the world and India were, to put it mildly, not.

That innings was the only successful chase by a visiting side in India of over 210. And only five times in history has 150 or more been chased by a visiting side here

I think this ignores quite a lot of context, because you naturally remove quite a large amount of innings where this doesn't apply.

A good example is the sheer amount of tests in India that had no 4th innings. Indian pitches have been flat historically, but especially before the T20 boom, they were also very difficult to score quickly on. A staggering 38 percent of tests in India during history have not reached the 4th innings. And then when you look at those that have, only 55 tests out of 179 have been lost by the team batting last.

So this indicates 2 things... firstly, those games that do reach the 4th innings are uniquely pitches that have lower scores, so the expectation of what can be achieved late in those pitches is naturally reflected in lower scores. Secondly, if it does reach the end, the team batting is far more likely to be chasing a score down or batting out a small amount of time, than be facing a total they fail to reach. In the end, the team batting last only losses 19% of games in history of Indian test cricket.

This is doubly reflected in the averages..... the average is just under 27 a wicket, or the "par score" of 270 all out.... which is just a shade under the most successful chase, so it further demostrates how little in history you have these situations in order to actually get a chaseable, winneable target of note. This average in modern times is closer to 30, so even more so.

Worth noting India since 2010 have lost 3 times, drawn 3 times, and won 22 times batting last. And the stat that is truly interesting is, their 2nd innings + 4 innings averages per wicket are higher than 1 + 3.... Including away teams in the data is difficult for the sole reason India have been a wrecking ball at home in this period, so its all over the place.

Lastly, England bat so quickly, the 4th innings is nowadays likely to be more akin to a 3rd innings pitch conditions. Over 2 innings, their scoring can remove a whole days play.

[sussexpob]

Messing around with data, you can make a case that an away team batting first is advantegous to their output, as it would seem batting last on turning wickets against Indian spinners reflects in the scoring data. But then weirdly, not exploiting whatever is in the pitch on day 1 (maybe a bit of grass for the seamers) has a similar effect on Indians being able to score more in the 2nd innnings than in the 1st..... and then the turn factor for superior players of spin doesn't translate to much of an advantage against India when asked to bat last, as they bat better in the 4th to the 3rd.

So its quite a difficult choice to make on whether or not to bat first or last. I think you have to play to conditions rather than back history and bat first as a policy.... but I admit, there seems a huge mentality factor in facing Indian spinners on day 5 that may be a convincing factor in making my choice... but then again, unless the pitch is literally luminous green with long, live grass on it, Id bat first on 99.9% of pitches

[meninblue]

Adi...

Why have India completely ignored Agrawal? His record is good in tests, surely he has to be a better player than some getting a game last test?

Mayank was in the team as opener in Australia series and did well. The way he played Nathan Lyon was very impressive. Lost his place after test series in SL.

He definitely gives more confidence that Rajat Patidar who is a specialist bat. Also, a better batsman than Srikhar Bharat who is primarily a keeper. Having said that, Mayank has technical issues, but so does Shreyas Iyer who also plays the short ball very badly. .The less said about Rohit Sharma in swing conditions the better. Mayank can do well in the middle order as he plays spin very well. But most Indian specialist batmen would be more comfortable in middle order against spin bowling. So Mayank is not the only go-to man in home matches. Shubman Gill also wanted to bat in middle order. Makeshift opener approach is not working. It is in this aspect (proper opener) where i think selectors are actually short of one. So they have to make a middle order batsman bat in top 3 India needs a technically very sound opener and there is none as of now and Mayank was selected for that role. Age is not on Mayank's side as well. I do not see a point in going back to Mayank at this stage of his career. Think tank has to identify one from the younger generation, set clear expectations on the technique front and play and develop one for test format. Having said that Yashasvi, will soon be looked as opener for all formats. The other openers who played for India A like Priyam Garg (Gujarat) have struggled. It's going to take lot of time to find a quality opener.

[meninblue]

Messing around with data, you can make a case that an away team batting first is advantegous to their output, as it would seem batting last on turning wickets against Indian spinners reflects in the scoring data. But then weirdly, not exploiting whatever is in the pitch on day 1 (maybe a bit of grass for the seamers) has a similar effect on Indians being able to score more in the 2nd innnings than in the 1st..... and then the turn factor for superior players of spin doesn't translate to much of an advantage against India when asked to bat last, as they bat better in the 4th to the 3rd.

So its quite a difficult choice to make on whether or not to bat first or last. I think you have to play to conditions rather than back history and bat first as a policy.... but I admit, there seems a huge mentality factor in facing Indian spinners on day 5 that may be a convincing factor in making my choice... but then again, unless the pitch is literally luminous green with long, live grass on it, Id bat first on 99.9% of pitches

Sussex, century old approach when playing Ranji cricket is as below:

1. Win the toss.
2. Opt to Bat first.
3. Put a score of 500 or 600 + batting first.
4. Take significant lead if the team batting second get bowled in less time or cheaply and try to win, else it's a draw.
5. On spinning wicket of day 4 and day 5 the team batting second will not be able to chase, and the team which scored more runs in first innings gets more points. This rule was changed couple of years back iirc to solve the template (win toss, 500+ etc.) with which Indian Ranji cricket was played on.

What shocked me was England losing test matches (i think it was on the last tour to India) even after winning toss. Gift i would say.

I doubt any touring captain won't opt to bowl first here in India after winning toss. Doing this would make the captain look utterly foolish and make a laughing stock of himself. No international captain would want to be doing blunders and tagged as making strategically wrong decisions. Exception may be in winter at the ground of Dharamshala in Himachal Pradesh.

I feel that as this England team is playing majorly 50 overs to 70 overs at 5rpo (bazball), the matches may not go to day 5. Other teams like NZ, Aus, SA would not take such approach and team batting second would not have to bat on day 5 wicket. Having said that, the wickets this series are not at all as spin friendly as has been seen over the years or the typical day 4 and 5 wickets in India.

Next match is Rajkot. Has traditionally been a high scorer venue in domestics. Batting for 60 overs like England and India have done in couple of innings in two tests wont help if the wicket is same. Could be different if the groundsman tweaks it with watering etc.

Even factoring the under skilled and poorly selected team of India that we have for this series, I do think this England team deserves a lot of praise. Many top non-subcontinent teams would not have given as much headache this England team has given to Indian fans.

[meninblue]

3rd test is on 15th. Makes me wonder if there was such a long break, why a 3 day warm-up match was not scheduled.

Perhaps this being a long 5 test series they did not want players to undergo so much play in a series.

[Arthur Crabtree]

They didn't even have a warm up before the series.

[meninblue]

They didn't even have a warm up before the series.

Yes Arthur, i meant same but didn't frame correctly. 3 day warmup could have been scheduled easily before the first test by reducing gap between 2nd and 3rd test.

[Durhamfootman]

No Kohli to put a bit of steel into the India side. Whatever the personal reasons are, they mean he'll now miss the entire test series

[Durhamfootman]

now Leach is out for the rest of the series too. Saves a decision, I suppose

[Arthur Crabtree]

Big blow to lose your best spinner in India. And for him after missing the Ashes.

[andy]

now Leach is out for the rest of the series too. Saves a decision, I suppose

Is he ever going to stay fit not suprised no ones being called up..although liam dawson might feel hard done by

[Arthur Crabtree]

Rahul still not fit. Jadeja named though. Seventeen player squad! Never used to send that many for a five month tour to Australia on a steamship.

Rohit Sharma (capt), Jasprit Bumrah, Yashasvi Jaiswal, Shubman Gill, Devdutt Padikkal, Rajat Patidar, Sarfaraz Khan, Dhruv Jurel (wk), KS Bharat (wk), Ravichandran Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Axar Patel, Washington Sundar, Kuldeep Yadav, Mohammed Siraj, Mukesh Kumar, Akash Deep.

[Durhamfootman]

no Shami in that squad. Is he out for the series too?

[bigfluffylemon]

no Shami in that squad. Is he out for the series too?

He's injured but the latest I saw said he was hoping to be back later in the series.