SA tour of Eng, July 19 - Sept 12

[andy]

Wasn't dangerous I don't think the South Africans were too happy coming off either tbf....just seemed a silly decision

[bigfluffylemon]

A strange end to a strange series. Odd that the ball started swinging after 25 overs under clear skies. Odd that after a hot dry summer both teams have fallen apart in the first innings against pace and spin has barely come into it (in my naivety I picked spinners for the FL, but for them to come into the game would have required first innings to last more than a day and a half between the teams...).

South Africa's batting has been historically bad for a touring side in England, and England's hasn't been a lot better, but just enough to scrape the honours.

Jimmy and Broad proving the idiocy of leaving them out in the West Indies. Let them keep playing as long as they perform.

I was curious to see that South Africa are not touring England again until 2028, but after this pretty mediocre series, that may be for the best. It's a far cry from the classic contests these sides have served up in the past (2008, anyone?)

[Durhamfootman]

(2008, anyone?)

those days feel long gone.

[sussexpob]

I used to think that a sheer lack of desire to play test cricket was the danger, but certainly in the more recent past I get the feeling most teams still want to play it, and interest in the game has revived somewhat in certain countries, especially India where you got the feeling before Kohli quit, he really wanted India to do well in the format. And one only has to look at how someone like Rohit Sharma has completely revamped his game to bat in the format, and at times has shown solidity when he used to be terrible when faced with anything remotely resembling a moving ball.

The problem is, rather than desire, we have a generation of cricketers who simply can't bat out defensively to a moving ball. I do very much get the feeling as well that pitches have become poorer to bat on. English pitches always have a lot of movement. Sub-continental pitches always turn sideways. Only really in Australia, where we have had a few years of featherbeds (Which isnt good either), do you feel batsman arent the underdog.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Hundred opening partnership. In a low scoring game too, although one where the Test was all but won.

[alfie]

Rather a tame finish to the Test Summer , I suppose...after the SA collapse yesterday any nerves about the chase were effectively scotched in a few overs and it was just a question of how many overs it would take : something of a pity that it couldn't be finished in front of the full house yesterday but them's the rules...

Good end to a difficult season for Crawley : yeah I know , less game pressure this time , needs to do it regularly , etc etc...I get all that . But when you see him play like this you can understand what Key , McCullum , Stokes see in him. He is obviously going to open in Pakistan so let us see what he does there : he struggled in Sri Lanka and India so it will be a new challenge and a guide to whether he is learning on the job. Also be interesting to see how the whole team manage playing in alien conditions.

Anyway very few comments on here so far after three months that has seen England win six of seven matches - which is as expected : it's the one win three defeat seasons that get people excited

Still way too early to tell how much this has been a New Dawn and how much just a happy set of circumstances ; but after the one win in seventeen games leading in I think one might say that the Stokes/McCullum partnership is off to a decent start

[Arthur Crabtree]

Yes, good summer for England. Well done to Gentle Ben and the coach. And particularly the pace attack, and Bairstow for making the most of his good form.

[Durhamfootman]

Happy to echo all of that

at the start of the test season, I doubt that anyone envisaged a scenario where England won 6 tests out of seven

[bigfluffylemon]

On both results and entertainment value, it has been a very successful summer. 6 test wins in a single summer has I think only happened once before (Vaughan's 2004 clean sweep), although in part that's usually because it's rare to get seven completed games. There's usually rain-affected draws. Still, England didn't let the loss of two whole days hold them back in the final test.

So why do I feel less than over the moon about this? It's not as if England were playing weak opposition either. The world test champions and runners up (who are current world number 2 side), both of whom soundly beat England 12 months ago, and then we've beaten the team that was top of the current world test championship and knocked them down to fourth. South Africa had won four test series in a row before this, and England have only beaten them once at home in 20 years.

Coming off a historically bad run of results, this has been an amazing turnaround. So what is it? Perhaps it's a feeling that we've some how got away with mugging teams with unusual conditions - spicy pitches, very strangely behaving balls and had more than our share of luck swinging the bat, and that when we go to Pakistan, Australia or somewhere else that the wickets won't just tumble and you need application to control the game, we'll get found out and the whole thing will fall apart? Perhaps it's the fact that we still haven't solved our top 3 batting, and the general outlandishless of the scorelines - some of the tests have scorecards that look like they belong from the 1800s, and we've been having a glut of records such as shortest test and lowest average from top 3 across all teams in the seven games since pre WWI - a feeling that again, this can't last.

Perhaps I am being unfair. The Old Trafford test here was an example of playing well to the conditions and exploiting mistakes, and England's performance at Trent Bridge, especially in the fourth innings (but even setting up the game in the second and third) represents one of the most extraordinary comebacks I have even seen in a test (at least, that England was on the right end of - I can only imagine New Zealand felt like we did after Adelaide 2006 - it just should not have been possible to lose that game), and was a staggering performance in every way.

Perhaps it does go to show that a change in leadership to the right kind can reap rewards. But I guess the cynic in me is waiting for the bubble to burst.

[sussexpob]

I wouldn't say the top 3 question is completely unsolved, because there are murmurs of a heartbeat in Ollie Pope's career this summer, and he's played at stage really well. If he can build or continue the upwards trend, England have a 3.

The most annoying thing is, once again Zak Crawley made a score at the very last opportunity (and in an innings you could hardly say was a test one, seeing as though his 50 was brought in with a SR of about 140). That will be enough to get on a plane again, but he's just not produced enough over a long spell to warrant it. I am sure given infinite chances, every sub-standard bat would make scores eventually.

Even for someone like me though, its hard to be negative. I asked at the start of the summer for better decisions to be made, and to be patient about those leading to results - and yet here we are, a summer of success down and a few questions answered (and a few players visibly performing better) and a team at least that has an identity on how they play and where they want to go.

Lets be generous.... this summer is mission accomplished, whatever the future has in store. Maybe it wont last, maybe players will go backwards..... maybe they wont. We can only make an assessement on what has come and gone, and that has been pretty much 10/10 compared to expectations.

The biggest question on the horizon for England is Anderson and Broad. Anderson averages 20 this year, Broad bowled very well vs SA...... I don't see much of a future past this winter for both, Anderson is now 40 and has to be a few tests away from the end.

Losing one or both feels like a bit of a hit... we dropped them and lost to one of the worst ranked sides in the world, so its a hint at a future without them

[bigfluffylemon]

Maybe that's it SP. I think Anderson will go through to at least next year's Ashes, and no reason why he shouldn't with his continued performance, but he and Broad can't last forever.

That said, Potts had a good summer, Robinson is improving on an already promising start and Leach now seems to be bedded down as number 1 spinner and has a captain who has some confidence in him, so the bowling future is looking bright. And if Bairstow and Pope can maintain the improvement they've shown, batting might stop being quite so horrible as well.

We can dream.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Credit to selectors and the coach and captain. Not many will have thought it was a sensible idea to push Pope up to three, and it has produced encouraging results.

[alfie]

I totally understand why Fluffy is a bit unsure whether to break out the champagne : as a long term England supporter it is hardly surprising he has developed the habit of eyeing any success with a wary glance to see what is about to Go Badly Wrong - sort of "We won ! OK - Where's the catch ?"

I've been following them a lot longer and can't claim to be immune to the same tendency to anxiety

But : I do think this summer's results should be cause for considerable satisfaction. While it is hardly uncommon for England teams to get carved up in Australia ; and tours of India - especially in recent years - have always been challenging ; the rather miserable 2021 home season being sandwiched between heavy losses in both countries and then followed by a pretty disappointing West Indies trip really had led to a sense that the team was at rock bottom. In truth there were some extenuating circumstances ( Covid issues , a virtual second choice team against NZ , etc) but the overall effect was deeply dispiriting - and it was fairly clear that the gloom felt by the public was also endemic in the playing group. Skipper Joe Root was looking like a dead man walking in after match interviews , despite his personal run making success ; bowlers were dropping like flies and the batting was generally a shambles...I guess the only way was up but it was hard to see how back in March.

Stokes as skipper was by no means universally hailed : I am pretty sure (haven't actually checked) there were those on here expressing doubts about his suitability. McCullum as coach was also seen as a risk (lack of experience ; questions re his approach to Tests) ; and as for the playing group - well where to start ? Openers - reasonable doubts (and to be fair these persist) ; Pope at three ?!? Bairstow at all ? And the Old Boys Club of Anderson and Broad - all had their doubters. But look what happened...

Doesn't mean all is perfect , of course. Home wins really haven't been unusual - with the exception of last year - and that hasn't often translated into overseas success. Whether it will this time remains to be seen. But the big change I see is the obviously confident and genuinely cheerful attitude in and around the team that I think is going to give them a far better chance of winning outside their own back yard. They're going to have a tough test in alien conditions in Pakistan in a few months : even if they don't win I reckon they'll be going into the matches with a far more positive approach than the limp resignation we saw in Australia just a few months ago. I can't say I am super confident they will be able to get a result there but I am certainly looking forward to seeing how they tackle the challenge : a few months ago I'd more likely have been dreading it !

And finally , if even Sussex says he's finding it hard to be negative we know something must be working well

[Durhamfootman]

Maybe that's it SP. I think Anderson will go through to at least next year's Ashes, and no reason why he shouldn't with his continued performance, but he and Broad can't last forever.

That said, Potts had a good summer, Robinson is improving on an already promising start and Leach now seems to be bedded down as number 1 spinner and has a captain who has some confidence in him, so the bowling future is looking bright. And if Bairstow and Pope can maintain the improvement they've shown, batting might stop being quite so horrible as well.

We can dream.

Pottsy has taken 13fer in the latest championship match, so with his good summer and Robinson looking like a class act, plus a returning Archer (maybe), perhaps a future without A & B is not necessarily a bleak one. England have to find a way to keep these guys and all the other hopefuls fit. Their record with young quicks is quite frankly appalling. Maybe the reason why A & B have endured relatively injury free compared to the rest, is that they are established enough players to get away with ignoring the advice of all the experts employed to tinker with actions and run ups and body positions and so on.

[Slipstream]

McCullum says Anderson and Broad will be in the Ashes. I do think that Broad and Anderson have played their last game together. During the winter I see them rotating as Wood is fit again and Robinson seems cemented in.

For 2023

Robinson
Broad/Anderson (rotating)
Wood/Archer (rotating)
Stokes
Leach

Fast bowlers to come in for injuries Woakes, Potts, Stone, Mahmood, Curran and Overton.