Aus v NZ, 3rd Test, Adelaide, Nov 27 - 1 Dec (D/N)

[The Professor]

It's the rise and rise of the shorter form of the game.

The counter argument may be that it is better to see three days of cricket where the ball is doing stuff and we see genuine thrills and spills. The purist will disagree.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Interesting shenanigans from the Lyon incident. Some are claiming that the snicko and ball tracking shown on the replay were taken from another delivery, and that some requests for replays from other angles were refused...

[GarlicJam]

Interesting shenanigans from the Lyon incident. Some are claiming that the snicko and ball tracking shown on the replay were taken from another delivery, and that some requests for replays from other angles were refused...

Who are the "some"? Do they speak with very flat vowels?

It certainly looked out, the Kiwis were unfortunate, but the way certain commentators were carrying on (Warne, not surprisingly was one) was pathetic. Commentators give opinions, the Third Umpire deals in facts. Nigel Llong has earnt a heck of a lot of respect as an umpire - I'd like to think that 1. he had valid reason for not giving that as out, and 2. his actions are deserving of far more respect that they have been given.

[Toby F]

Interesting shenanigans from the Lyon incident. Some are claiming that the snicko and ball tracking shown on the replay were taken from another delivery, and that some requests for replays from other angles were refused...

I used to believe in conspiracies, but then I realized that was just what they wanted me to think.

Sounds like a poor decision, but I haven't seen it. Right or wrong, I am assuming the umpire had his reasons.

[GarlicJam]

scepticism levels on what "some" are claiming are high, in this part of Tasmania.

[hopeforthebest]

I understand he was able to see a hot spot and snicko showed nothing also he could see no obvious deflection of the ball, seems not out to me.

[yuppie]

What are Australia to do with M Marsh?

Does not seem capable of getting runs at 6, but he is getting wickets and proving useful with the ball.

Should they stick with him?

[GarlicJam]

I understand he was able to see a hot spot and snicko showed nothing also he could see no obvious deflection of the ball, seems not out to me.

While I thought it looked out, your post is enough reasoning for Llong to not give it out. He needed conclusive proof, he thought he didn't see that.

[hopeforthebest]

All the process of the third umpire he gives a audible commentary that is broadcast, it might be interesting to hear that. I've not done so.

[bigfluffylemon]

Interesting shenanigans from the Lyon incident. Some are claiming that the snicko and ball tracking shown on the replay were taken from another delivery, and that some requests for replays from other angles were refused...

I was watching live, and it's nonsense. It is true that the angles were limited, but they looked at everything they could, multiple times. My view at the time was that there wasn't enough evidence to give the batsman conclusively out, and under the circumstances the batsman gets the benefit of the doubt. There was no obvious deflection (in real time or slo mo), no noise, nothing on snicko. The only thing was a slight flash on hotspot, but Lyon's bat was out of shot on the hotspot cam when the ball passed it (he was sweeping, so he was a long way forward), so it was not possible to say whether the hotspot was actually caused by the ball or something else, and even then it was a very fine mark.

It certainly wasn't anything like as conclusive as some loud-mouthed commentators were claiming after the fact, when Australia had added 80 runs for the ninth wicket. In fact I think had the other decision been made, there would have been just as much outcry, given the lack of evidence. It's one of those cases damned if you do, damned if you don't, unfortunately, where the technology didn't help matters.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I've seen it, and he did ask for some shots he didn't get. Presumably they weren't available. The presence of a hotspot should mean more than the absence of snicko (assuming the snicko was from that ball). Llong's issue was that the bat was out of frame when the spot appeared, so I guess it was absolutely on the extreme of not overturning the onfield decision unless you get absolute proof; the tv umpire was unwilling to employ any conjecture at all, even though the hot spot couldn't have come from anything other than the ball. He didn't see it appear.

Might be questions about why he kept asking for angles he never got. But we've had problems with hotspot (at least) not being available from both sides before, when the cameras were being rewound to review a decision from the previous ball, so SNAFU does happen. Interesting, and very imaginative theories are out there.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Posted that before I saw bfl's input.

[Toby F]

What are Australia to do with M Marsh?

Does not seem capable of getting runs at 6, but he is getting wickets and proving useful with the ball.

Should they stick with him?

He doesn't exactly have a world beating first class average (~31) so I am not sure we can expect much improvement. If there is a batting collapse he looks far to early at 6, but in this test we would be screwed without his bowling. Certainly I am more inclined to stick with him than his brother who shouldn't bat higher than 12.

[yuppie]

What are Australia to do with M Marsh?

Does not seem capable of getting runs at 6, but he is getting wickets and proving useful with the ball.

Should they stick with him?

He doesn't exactly have a world beating first class average (~31) so I am not sure we can expect much improvement. If there is a batting collapse he looks far to early at 6, but in this test we would be screwed without his bowling. Certainly I am more inclined to stick with him than his brother who shouldn't bat higher than 12.

It is reminding me of when Australia stuck with S Waugh. It was all about the potential.

There is now talk of dropping him down the order and maybe bringing in another bat. But who else is there? Its probably worth sticking with him at 6 during the WI series. It might just take one good knock to get him going. Neville looks like he could be good cover coming in behind him.

As for his brother, running yourself out is not going to win you many friends when not many supporters understand why your in the team to start with.

The next problem for Australia is Starcs injury. Bowled well in the first innings, but his injury appears to be long term. Suddenly the Australian bowling line up looks very vulnerable. Loosing Rhino, MJ and Starc within 6 tests. Big problems for Australia. Maybe MJ can come out of retirement for the WI series?

[Toby F]

The next problem for Australia is Starcs injury. Bowled well in the first innings, but his injury appears to be long term. Suddenly the Australian bowling line up looks very vulnerable. Loosing Rhino, MJ and Starc within 6 tests. Big problems for Australia. Maybe MJ can come out of retirement for the WI series?

I hope they do whatever they need to get Starc right in the long term. No point putting things off now. Pattinson needs some miles on the clock, a three test series might just fit the bill.