There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

[Making_Splinters]

If Carbs gets dropped for the first series in the summer, following on from the way Compton and Root were treated, what message does that send out to any new player coming into the side?

They have to score a decent amount of runs and look like test players? Is that such a large demand?

A fair piont Sussex, but one that is completely redundent when applied to a player who has only been given four tests, and for the most part actually looked more like a Test player than his opening partner.

If England had been putting totals on the board regularly above 350 Carberry's performance would look poor but in the context of what really happened he's done OK. He's certainly looked more like an opening batsman than either Compton or Root.

Root scored 180 at least as an opener, Compton scored 2 x 100's in a series England struggled in(and played in Asia, traditionally the place English batters struggle the most)... Carberry has 1 x 60 in 10 innings

And of course Root was removed from opening after five tests, Compton was dropped a series after scoring back to back hundreds, so why would a player have any confidence that they will be given a fair chance?

Carbs does not have the security of a place that the likes of Cook does to know he can come through a poor series, he does not have age on his side like Stokes to have the confidence to come out and play his natura game knowing that if it doesn't come off there will be chances in the future. Surrounded by a failing batting line up, in a car crash series where all and sundry are banging on about putting a price on your wicket, what do you expect him to do?

I think if we've gotten to the stage where usually sensible posters, on a fairly good forum can openly, and in all seriousness call for a player to be dropped after just four tests, and those four tests coming in a series where the entire batting line up has failed, then we don't need a thread about what England should do to recover. It's already past the point of no return.

Pick Lees, Robson, Chopra, Reece, or anyone else, if you keep dropping them after 4 or 5 tests you're not going to see any succees and you're going to run out of openers very quickly.

[hopeforthebest]

When Root made his 180 we had a first innings lead of 130 and the Oz bowlers were so tired they could hardly stagger to the wicket. Carberry hasn't had that luxury. Anyway I wasn't talking about runs but about technique.

[sussexpob]

And of course Root was removed from opening after five tests, Compton was dropped a series after scoring back to back hundreds, so why would a player have any confidence that they will be given a fair chance?

Carbs does not have the security of a place that the likes of Cook does to know he can come through a poor series, he does not have age on his side like Stokes to have the confidence to come out and play his natura game knowing that if it doesn't come off there will be chances in the future. Surrounded by a failing batting line up, in a car crash series where all and sundry are banging on about putting a price on your wicket, what do you expect him to do?

I said this to Powelly recently, but I wanted England to stick with Compton and I would like to see him back. If Carberry was 23 and not 33 I would also advocate him getting a long run, but the likelyhood is that anytime extended for his development is going to last longer than he can be expected to maintain performance through his physical ageing. At 33 most batsman are on the road away from their peak and on the downwards. By the end of next test summer he will be 34, and arguably only established legends are given the time to rot to the age of the late 30's!!!

I dont think thats me calling for blood after 4 tests, simply making a judgement of his long term use in the team and the wish that England spent time on another player in the same time frame to come good.

Carberry was picked as an experienced man to perform and hit the ground running. No doubt the England setup did not want to manage him and coach him to test standard over time.... so surely the experiment failed? Remember, he has no joker up his sleeve like the other batters who scored hundreds a plenty and are now failing.

[Making_Splinters]

And of course Root was removed from opening after five tests, Compton was dropped a series after scoring back to back hundreds, so why would a player have any confidence that they will be given a fair chance?

Carbs does not have the security of a place that the likes of Cook does to know he can come through a poor series, he does not have age on his side like Stokes to have the confidence to come out and play his natura game knowing that if it doesn't come off there will be chances in the future. Surrounded by a failing batting line up, in a car crash series where all and sundry are banging on about putting a price on your wicket, what do you expect him to do?

I said this to Powelly recently, but I wanted England to stick with Compton and I would like to see him back. If Carberry was 23 and not 33 I would also advocate him getting a long run, but the likelyhood is that anytime extended for his development is going to last longer than he can be expected to maintain performance through his physical ageing. At 33 most batsman are on the road away from their peak and on the downwards. By the end of next test summer he will be 34, and arguably only established legends are given the time to rot to the age of the late 30's!!!

I dont think thats me calling for blood after 4 tests, simply making a judgement of his long term use in the team and the wish that England spent time on another player in the same time frame to come good.

Carberry was picked as an experienced man to perform and hit the ground running. No doubt the England setup did not want to manage him and coach him to test standard over time.... so surely the experiment failed? Remember, he has no joker up his sleeve like the other batters who scored hundreds a plenty and are now failing.

I doubt any player, regardless of how good they are could "hit the ground running" given what has gone on this series. All of England's batsmen - including the three of them who average close to fifty and are closing in on 10,000 test runs - have failed.

Carbs is not going to be an international class batsman, he is however a solid opening bat, one who has shown up several vastly better players this series with his determination to put a price on his wicket. England need to stop making changes for at least the next summer, to allow some sort of stability to return to a side which is clearly deeply unsettled.

[sussexpob]

I doubt any player, regardless of how good they are could "hit the ground running" given what has gone on this series. All of England's batsmen - including the three of them who average close to fifty and are closing in on 10,000 test runs - have failed.

Carbs is not going to be an international class batsman, he is however a solid opening bat, one who has shown up several vastly better players this series with his determination to put a price on his wicket. England need to stop making changes for at least the next summer, to allow some sort of stability to return to a side which is clearly deeply unsettled.

Bell, Stokes and KP average more, Cook is a fraction of a run away from Carberry but has at least passed 50 x 3, Root has a lower strike rate(putting a high price on his wicket) and is only 1.5 runs less per innings. If anything he has failed about as much as anyone, is the oldest of the batsman, and the least established.....

I dont see how showing failure is acceptable and peaking the same team to be consistent is going to help anything. If anything a bit of a shake up is needed, nothing radical, but something must change.... and Carberry's head is first in line.

[Making_Splinters]

I doubt any player, regardless of how good they are could "hit the ground running" given what has gone on this series. All of England's batsmen - including the three of them who average close to fifty and are closing in on 10,000 test runs - have failed.

Carbs is not going to be an international class batsman, he is however a solid opening bat, one who has shown up several vastly better players this series with his determination to put a price on his wicket. England need to stop making changes for at least the next summer, to allow some sort of stability to return to a side which is clearly deeply unsettled.

Bell, Stokes and KP average more, Cook is a fraction of a run away from Carberry but has at least passed 50 x 3, Root has a lower strike rate(putting a high price on his wicket) and is only 1.5 runs less per innings. If anything he has failed about as much as anyone, is the oldest of the batsman, and the least established.....

I dont see how showing failure is acceptable and peaking the same team to be consistent is going to help anything. If anything a bit of a shake up is needed, nothing radical, but something must change.... and Carberry's head is first in line.

Carbs' performance has to be put I the context of his opening partner, a batsman with vastly more experience and class. He's gone pretty much toe to toe with Cook and looked a much more convincing opening bat. As i said previously it beggars belief that there is serious debate about dropping a player after just four tests! It is sadly indicative of what has gone badly wrong with English cricket under Flower,

[Gingerfinch]

Ms

Many a player in the history of test cricket have been dropped after 4 tests or less, and will continue to do so. Carberry has been impressive at times, and would still eb safe but for his age. Sydney is a good time to have a look at a couple of players, in readiness for next summer.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Key to note here that England only scored 261 and 117, so no large innings in this test, yet SOOOOOOOOOOO many drops

Cant even be bother to go to the last two tests, I think you get the point

Maybe a case can be made for those earlier Tests being crooked? Though the fact England were bowled out cheaply anyway goes against that. Let's not forget that Akmal was a very bad keeper. I don't want to be naive, and I accept that some of the play was obviously rigged in that series. But that partnership between Broad and Trott doesn't really look like it was. And the pattern isn't the same as the ones with lots of drops. I wonder why that partnership is picked out in isolation for that series, batting and bowling.

[Durhamfootman]

Ms

Many a player in the history of test cricket have been dropped after 4 tests or less, and will continue to do so. Carberry has been impressive at times, and would still eb safe but for his age. Sydney is a good time to have a look at a couple of players, in readiness for next summer.

I seem to remember England having a look at a couple of players at the Oval. What a disaster that turned out to be.

Pick the best team for the last test, and try to avoid the whitewash. Despite the 4-0 headline, England have been more competitive in every test.... I'll even be bold enough to suggest that, had this been a 15 test series, and England continued with this rate of improval, we might have won a couple by the end.

Try and avoid the whitewash, forget about tests for a bit, regroup, and come back all guns blazing in May. If Carbs is the best of the other openers, then keep him in the side. If now is the time when seasoned internationals start to retire, and new players start to come through, it might even make sense to have an older head amongst the new crop.

[Albondiga]

Durhamfootman is right . At this level you always pick your best (or perceived best) side.

[hopeforthebest]

Maybe they should stick with the same team which at least got closer to a win than any other eleven.

[meninblue]

Akmal has been cleared, as far as I am aware, of any wrong doing. Anyone who watched that test would completely disagree with that conclusion:



There is no way any keeper, well one playing the game properly at least, would miss that run out.

Having watched the video i do think there is some thing more behind that missed run out. See the way Akmal has moved the hands while attempting to disturb the stumps/bails. They come up almost perpendicularly rather than going towards the stumps.it's not the normal wicket keeping technique by any ways. Even the worst of wicket keepers or even fielders by default move the hands towards the stumps.

[Gingerfinch]

Durhamfootman is right . At this level you always pick your best (or perceived best) side.

England haven't always. Anyway, is Ballance for Carberry or even Root, a massive difference?

[Arthur Crabtree]

While there are alternatives to look at with pace bowlers and batters, the specialist positions of spin and keeper look hard to resolve. Do we give Bairstow a chance, or go back to Prior, who has a long history of success before a fairly recent decline. Same with Borthwick/Kerrigan against Monty. These two seem to be the most difficult decisions. Even if the problems reside more with coaching and management, and fatigue, changes need to be made, with Swann retired and Pietersen and Carberry in particular entering sporting middle age.

Here is the update of England in decline, bookended by two very bad series in UAE and Australia.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

These figures suggest the era of Atherton, Butcher, Stewart and Hussain.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Better from the bowlers. Anderson is looking post peak, though still earning a place. And the figures show how little Bresnan has contributed with bat and ball. Thirteen games. No fifty. No 5fer. Over two years. But this is an entrenched decline for all, with perhaps only Broad doing well. Obviously there have been good performances within this frame, but an overall trend of underachievement.

[D/L]

...Better from the bowlers. Anderson is looking post peak, though still earning a place. And the figures show how little Bresnan has contributed with bat and ball. Thirteen games. No fifty. No 5fer. Over two years. But this is an entrenched decline for all, with perhaps only Broad doing well. Obviously there have been good performances within this frame, but an overall trend of underachievement.

Good job then that the selectors will continue not to go on figures alone.