Racism in English football?

[sussexpob]

Apparently Fifa have been asked to take action against England's fan because of racist undertones in chants against Rio Ferdinand.... some stupid organisation I have never heard of called "FACE" apparently choosing to get some free publication time and some free advertising space by mentioning the issue to FIFA....

Apparently the England fans took offence to his skin colour and not to him deciding playing for his country was more important than maintaining his "pre arranged training plan"... or that playing in Montenegro was less important than commentating for Qatari TV!!!

But yes, apparently if you insult a black person then you are racist regardless of the nature of the insult or chant.

[Durhamfootman]

The phrase 'racist undertones' suggests to me that there was nothing overtly racist about the chanting. Given the stick that the England team get on a fairly regular basis on their travels into eastern europe, the whole thing would seem rather ironic were it not for the fact that they may now have to play a match at wembley behind closed doors. Bad for the Wembley, bad for the bean counters, and bad for the team.

Lets hope that the powers that be show a bit of common sense.......... not much chance of that, then!

[Durhamfootman]

sorry... that wasn't the phrase at all. "undercurrent of race" was the phrase used.

[sussexpob]

The phrase 'racist undertones' suggests to me that there was nothing overtly racist about the chanting. Given the stick that the England team get on a fairly regular basis on their travels into eastern europe, the whole thing would seem rather ironic were it not for the fact that they may now have to play a match at wembley behind closed doors. Bad for the Wembley, bad for the bean counters, and bad for the team.

Lets hope that the powers that be show a bit of common sense.......... not much chance of that, then!

The suggestion is that the fans sung about him being burnt.....

[durham_andy]

They sang about burning him on a bonfire which, although isn't particularly nice, I can't see how it's racist. I'm fairly sure the song originates from Man Utd fans singing about burning scoucers on a fire... The other song they don't like was "Rio Ferdinand you know what you are." I can end that sentence in plenty of ways, none of which are racist.

[sussexpob]

They sang about burning him on a bonfire which, although isn't particularly nice, I can't see how it's racist. I'm fairly sure the song originates from Man Utd fans singing about burning scoucers on a fire... The other song they don't like was "Rio Ferdinand you know what you are." I can end that sentence in plenty of ways, none of which are racist.

According to the FSF supports group the fans were actually chanting "Ferdinand we know WHERE you are" in reference to his commentary job in Dubai. The supporters group also inferrred that they have recording of the games and their is no evidence of the chants of a racist nature, saying that this FACE group are acting "dangerously".

It seems again, just like Herbert, that someone who is not there and lacks the evidence or the insight makes a pretty serious accusation and everyone prints it instantly.

[mikesiva]

I wonder why the fans chanted about burning anton ferdinand too.. sounds like they were unhappy anton dared yo complain about the racist abuse he received from john terry.

If the chanting was about rio alone you could say its the usual disgusting personál abuse by illiterate low-life football scum. But lumping anton in as well is what makes it potentially racist.

I know why i have stopped attending football matches and incidents like these just reinforce my personál stance....

Rio should just concentrate on playing for man utd....england dont deserve him.

[SaintPowelly]

Don't make me laugh Mike

Rio racially abused Ashley Cole, calling him a "choc ice" but I guess you can conveniently ignore racism when it suits you.

[sussexpob]

Mike,

Interesting that this was a media story that the Mirror printed that was referred to FIFA by a body that had no evidence to support their complaint other than "heresay".... they actually admit the complaint was based solely on "media comment".

Meanwhile in the real world the FA and the supporters association arent convinced... the FA statement today:

"While we have no reason to dispute the media reports, which are without doubt made for the right reasons of fighting racism, at this time we have not found any recorded evidence of the specific discriminatory chanting referring to Rio and Anton Ferdinand."

apparently that conclusion from the FA is based on "its security officers monitoring the English supporters in the stadium and having access to recorded video footage"...

So it seems on the "This is racist side" we have an article in a tabloid.... on the "This didnt happen side" we have eye witness accounts and voice recordings from professionals sent to monitor it.

I take it that your belief in media intergrity must be watertight.

[Alviro Patterson]

Another anti-racist movement reporting something far from the truth, quelle surprise!

[englandmad666]

Money on fifa coming crashing down on england, setting an "example" of us, yet it wasnt even a racist song??

Rio then stokes the fire on twitter by having a pop, but the guy had no qualms of retweeting the choc ice thing (by the way i had no idea what a chocice was until i looked it up and i think its the most racist term ive ever heard) hodgson should never pick him again, the england football team has become a circus in the last 24 months and rio has played his part!

[mikesiva]

'Asked whether Tottenham fans should be prosecuted for using the term, Cameron told the Jewish Chroni­cle: “You have to think of the mens rea. There’s a difference between Spurs fans self-describing themselves as Yids and someone calling someone a Yid as an insult. You have to be motivated by hate. Hate speech should be prosecuted but only when it’s motivated by hate.” The Prime Minister’s stance differs fundamentally from the FA statement last week. “The FA considers that the use of the term ‘Yid’ is likely to be considered offensive by the reasonable observer and considers the term to be inappropriate in a football setting,” the FA said. “The FA would encourage fans to avoid using it in any situation. Use of the term in a public setting could amount to a criminal offence, and leave those fans liable to prosecution and potentially a lengthy football banning order.” The Board of Deputies of British Jews has said that it backs the FA’s stance on the use of the word “Yid”.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... chant.html

It's beyond me how Cameron can try to defend Tottenham's use of the 'Yid Army' as a badge of honour...quite simply, the word 'Yid' is derogatory and unacceptable. Football needs to move with the times, and leave the prehistoric, abusive times behind them.

I worked at a Jewish charity for a year, and if I called a co-worker a Yid, that would be grounds for disciplinary action. So, why is it okay for Spurs fans to claim this term to themselves?

[Gingerfinch]

'Asked whether Tottenham fans should be prosecuted for using the term, Cameron told the Jewish Chroni­cle: “You have to think of the mens rea. There’s a difference between Spurs fans self-describing themselves as Yids and someone calling someone a Yid as an insult. You have to be motivated by hate. Hate speech should be prosecuted but only when it’s motivated by hate.” The Prime Minister’s stance differs fundamentally from the FA statement last week. “The FA considers that the use of the term ‘Yid’ is likely to be considered offensive by the reasonable observer and considers the term to be inappropriate in a football setting,” the FA said. “The FA would encourage fans to avoid using it in any situation. Use of the term in a public setting could amount to a criminal offence, and leave those fans liable to prosecution and potentially a lengthy football banning order.” The Board of Deputies of British Jews has said that it backs the FA’s stance on the use of the word “Yid”.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... chant.html

It's beyond me how Cameron can try to defend Tottenham's use of the 'Yid Army' as a badge of honour...quite simply, the word 'Yid' is derogatory and unacceptable. Football needs to move with the times, and leave the prehistoric, abusive times behind them.

I worked at a Jewish charity for a year, and if I called a co-worker a Yid, that would be grounds for disciplinary action. So, why is it okay for Spurs fans to claim this term to themselves?

Haven't the Spurs fans always been known as the 'yid' army, and use it as a sign of their history/race? It's a little bit pc gone mad.

[Alviro Patterson]

Haven't the Spurs fans always been known as the 'yid' army, and use it as a sign of their history/race? It's a little bit pc gone mad.

That's what I thought and I agree it is PC going mad, it's not as if opposition fans are taunting Spurs fans with the phrase in a derogatory manner.

[sussexpob]

The whole issue baffles me. Are Tottenham Anti-Semitic? I would make a case that they are anything but!!

The Jewish race have been the most discriminated of all races in the history of the planet, and here we have a group of Non-Jewish football fans who have drawn a line in the sand when they have heard their fellow Jewish fans being subjected to the most cruel and despicable form of chanting, and they have, in kindsmanship and brotherhood stood up and said "if they get you, they get all of us"....

That to me is something remarkably positive and it should be universally celebrated, not torn apart by some idiotic lawyers who have nothing but publicity as their main aim. They use the word "Yid", something that people have latched onto, but it is a shallow assessment of the positive power that has been displayed by the Spurs fans in dealing with racism.

I also dont understand this idea about positive identification producing racism from others also. So Tottenham shouldnt be Jewish because it creates anti-semitism in the counter? Isnt that like saying that black people should be painted white because on occasions people subject them to racism? Isnt the whole point of discrimintation policy to protect the identity and freedom of association of those subject to discrimination, and to punish those that carry out such filth?

If Spurs arent allowed to be Jewish, then Cardiff are no longer allowed to identify with Wales(people call them sheepshaggers), Brighton can no longer admit homosexuals(they attract the town full of puffs songs) and Man United cant sell prawn sandwiches(class issue songs about the upper class).