Spot Fixing?

[Arthur Crabtree]

Ha, well innocent until proven guilty is a fair argument. But as two have confessed (perhaps more than allegedly as this comes from the police) then it's fair to say it's no longer a factor.

[Arthur Crabtree]

As they have confessed, I presume they will plead guilty in court, and the lawyers will appeal for sympathy and claim extenuating circumstances.

[sussexpob]

As they have confessed, I presume they will plead guilty in court, and the lawyers will appeal for sympathy and claim extenuating circumstances.

An unamed police source that has not been, in the last 24 hours, verified as truth from a named official source.... the reports now refer to this as an "alleged" confession. Id stand corrected, but thats all I can find on the matter.

I find Adi's view on this matter very unenlighted.... complaining at a players right to a lawyer to defend himself? Never heard so much rubbish... a confession can be forced through duress! Even a guilty mans rights should be protected

[Arthur Crabtree]

OK, I thought the existence of Sreesanth's confession at least was verified in an official police statement. Regarding duress, would they be allowed to interview him without his lawyer present? I suppose Sreesanth's lawyer would have to discredit his confession if he is to plead not guilty. Of course, his rights should be protected. I was a bit surprised the police released that information, but if someone leaked it, then I wouldn't be surprised if that would be seen to be detrimental to a fair trial. Dunno!

[meninblue]

Ha, well innocent until proven guilty is a fair argument. But as two have confessed (perhaps more than allegedly as this comes from the police) then it's fair to say it's no longer a factor.

The confession is a tricky subject here. In numerous cases those who were arrested confessed to police. But when they appear in court they say they were forced to confess or they did not confess at all. Their is still some debate about police confession and court confession decides the rulings. The way systems, bureaucracy, political interference, corruption, evidence destruction happens in India , many try to use the loopholes and are successful in that. I read somewhere that if they have confessed to a relevant post police officer, then it holds good as evidence for court proceedings. Don't know if that is true or false. Then it is often joked by Indians 'tareek pe tareek, tareek pe tareek.which means date after date. Which goes somewhere along the lines of : A man approaches court for justice, but the court gets adjourned so many times due to whatever reasons it may be adjourned for, the justice seeker gets fed up of the numerous dates he has to go to court.The gangsters book inoccent people under various sections and win cases at time by using political contacts etc, That is partly the reason why many don't wait for it or don't follow it much. Sometimes even the evidence is destroyed so much that the guilty might end up getting compensation. The way things work in India is very different than how things work in England (especially regarding law, system, bureaucracy, political interference,evidence destruction by gangsters (murders,bribe etc)). "Not innocent even though acquitted" can hold true here. Weird things happen here.Having said that it might not hold true for all incidents.But nobody has patience given all these to wait for the verdicts. There are lot of complexities . Not as simple and as clear as what happens in other more developed countries, especially those with stronger law system, better governance etc.

In that context and also in context of what was shown on TV channels people have already made minds. Companies have reacted, BCCI has reacted, Sponsors have reacted.

Secondly, moral systems are given as much importance as other systems and various sections of Indian society having its own set of rules is nothing new . So i guess even if court rules them not guilty, at the most BCCI will have to lift the ban. Everyone knows fixing is existing in cricket and these are the only ones caught. Moraly the BCCI will not select them citing reasons like lack of form, not fitting in strategy, better options, not played cricket in so and so tournament. The verdict even in favor of cricketers will just hold good for them on the Green paper.In fact there existence is only on Green paper now. In Indian context they have lost their existence in fans, companies,sponsors. The court ruling will not massively change the way people,companies, sponsors ,BCCI and cricketing system actually opts to look at them. People have seen enough,reacted and the chapter will probably be closed when BCCI working committee meets and bans them.

[DeltaAlpha]

Very interesting, adi. It's always dangerous to guess what may happen in another country based on what happens in one's own country.

[meninblue]

Very interesting, adi. It's always dangerous to guess what may happen in another country based on what happens in your own country.

But some people know more about our systems better and call names. I can only say that whatever the green paper says , they will never play for India again. It may be rubbish though.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I was mainly concerned about posting about their offences as if they were guilty. Which seems acceptable if they have confessed, but not if they haven't.

[sussexpob]

Very interesting, adi. It's always dangerous to guess what may happen in another country based on what happens in your own country.

But some people know more about our systems better and call names. I can only say that whatever the green paper says , they will never play for India again. It may be rubbish though.

So you acknowledge that, in your statement above, the Indian justice system is corrupt and ill equipt to deliver justice, yet seem to vindicate this corrupt system by totally buying the idea of guilt based on no detailed evidence? Not only that, but the extent to which you have done so is, quite frankly, worrying.

A confession doesnt mean anything... English policeman used to beat confessions out of people before the PACE act in the early 80's stopped it.

[meninblue]

I was mainly concerned about posting about their offences as if they were guilty. Which seems acceptable if they have confessed, but not if they haven't.

If they haven't actually confessed then they have the right to fight it in court.But their cricket career is over IMO whatever the green paper says.In that terms it is irrelevant.

[meninblue]

Very interesting, adi. It's always dangerous to guess what may happen in another country based on what happens in your own country.

But some people know more about our systems better and call names. I can only say that whatever the green paper says , they will never play for India again. It may be rubbish though.

So you acknowledge that, in your statement above, the Indian justice system is corrupt and ill equipt to deliver justice, yet seem to vindicate this corrupt system by totally buying the idea of guilt based on no detailed evidence? Not only that, but the extent to which you have done so is, quite frankly, worrying.

A confession doesnt mean anything... English policeman used to beat confessions out of people before the PACE act in the early 80's stopped it.

I have not said all systems in India are corrupt in all cases.Justice is met in some and non guilty face prison sometimes.It has happened both ways.In this case everyone concerned has already made their mind. It is difficult to explain over a forum and not 100% of what i say may be communicated or understood on forum.Sometimes you have to be in some thing to know more about it.

To be clear i clearly state that many systems have to improve tremendously in India.Otherwise people will suffer.Don't compare England with India in some aspect yet.We have various positives and various drawbacks.Again, difficult to explain over a forum and not 100% of what i say may be communicated or understood on forum.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I would have thought interrogation would be filmed these days.

[meninblue]

I would have thought interrogation would be filmed these days.

Yes, a very basic expectation to rule out a lot of things.

I think they used filmed interrogation in case of Ajmal Kasab (terrorist) though.

[meninblue]

IMO BCCI will give a further ruling even before the court gives a ruling.Tomorrow is the day fixed (no pun intended) for meeting.

[meninblue]

BCCI Working Committee meets to chalk out course of action

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 120480.cms

Jolted by the sensational IPL spot-fixing scandal, the BCCI's all-powerful working committee will hold an emergency meeting on Sunday to discuss the fallout of the controversy and decide the future course of action against the three arrested cricketers.

The BCCI is under intense pressure to take a tough stand as it is a second case of spot-fixing in the cash-rich IPL and indications are that they could even contemplate handing out life bans on the basis of preliminary report by its anti-corruption unit.