India the Test Future?

[braveneutral]

They don't say "two swallows a summer does not make." They say, "a swallow a summer does not make."

Thus, to use that as an analogy I think would be incorrect.

[Making_Splinters]

Personally I don't think Sehwag has a particularly long career left ahead of him; He is a player who relies on instinct and hand to ey co-ordination to score his runs rather than a techincal mastery in the vein of Tendulkar. As we all get older our reflexes and co-ordination begin to dull, and whereas a technical player can adapt their game to a certain degree to compensate for this and hold father time at bay for a while, someone like Sehwag can't do, simply because they do not have the technical expertise to do so.

The big problem with Sehwag at them moment is quite simply, he is in terrible nick. Instinctive players find it much harder to get out of such ruts then technical players do, as we saw with KP. That moments doubt in what your entire game is based on is often fatal and it rapidly becomes a downward spiral as you keep getting out doing what you have always done. With a more techincal player they can get in the nets and work on the little flaws that make the difference, whereas an instinctive player can't do that as in the heat of the moment they play off gut feelings.

Either way, Sehwag will get back into form sooner or later, and I hope it isn't against England he refinds that spark!

[meninblue]

Personally I don't think Sehwag has a particularly long career left ahead of him; He is a player who relies on instinct and hand to ey co-ordination to score his runs rather than a techincal mastery in the vein of Tendulkar. As we all get older our reflexes and co-ordination begin to dull, and whereas a technical player can adapt their game to a certain degree to compensate for this and hold father time at bay for a while, someone like Sehwag can't do, simply because they do not have the technical expertise to do so.

The big problem with Sehwag at them moment is quite simply, he is in terrible nick. Instinctive players find it much harder to get out of such ruts then technical players do, as we saw with KP. That moments doubt in what your entire game is based on is often fatal and it rapidly becomes a downward spiral as you keep getting out doing what you have always done. With a more techincal player they can get in the nets and work on the little flaws that make the difference, whereas an instinctive player can't do that as in the heat of the moment they play off gut feelings.

Either way, Sehwag will get back into form sooner or later, and I hope it isn't against England he refinds that spark!

Spot on regarding Sehwag.

IMO as well he will be back in runs in subcontinent where he can play across the line and get away with the lack of footwork or defensive technique.

[shankycricket]

Personally I don't think Sehwag has a particularly long career left ahead of him; He is a player who relies on instinct and hand to ey co-ordination to score his runs rather than a techincal mastery in the vein of Tendulkar. As we all get older our reflexes and co-ordination begin to dull, and whereas a technical player can adapt their game to a certain degree to compensate for this and hold father time at bay for a while, someone like Sehwag can't do, simply because they do not have the technical expertise to do so.

The big problem with Sehwag at them moment is quite simply, he is in terrible nick. Instinctive players find it much harder to get out of such ruts then technical players do, as we saw with KP. That moments doubt in what your entire game is based on is often fatal and it rapidly becomes a downward spiral as you keep getting out doing what you have always done. With a more techincal player they can get in the nets and work on the little flaws that make the difference, whereas an instinctive player can't do that as in the heat of the moment they play off gut feelings.

Either way, Sehwag will get back into form sooner or later, and I hope it isn't against England he refinds that spark!

Spot on regarding Sehwag.

IMO as well he will be back in runs in subcontinent where he can play across the line and get away with the lack of footwork or defensive technique.

[shankycricket]

They don't say "two swallows a summer does not make." They say, "a swallow a summer does not make."

Thus, to use that as an analogy I think would be incorrect.

Yes I know
But I expected a better argument from you regarding Sehwag's batting instead of that.

[braveneutral]

They don't say "two swallows a summer does not make." They say, "a swallow a summer does not make."

Thus, to use that as an analogy I think would be incorrect.

Yes I know
But I expected a better argument from you regarding Sehwag's batting instead of that.

Why? That is the fundamental flaw in the argument.

[braveneutral]

Also, we had this argument not too long ago and nothing has changed since (apart from he has broken the world record ODI score). Yet last time, the anti-Sehwag camp would not listen to his statistics, so why would they now?

[IndusCreed]

Sehwag has sucked in Australia so far. He had a good inning in an ODI, against a bit inexperienced bowling on home pitches! Just plain truth. If that makes me a member of anti-Sehwag camp, so be it!

[ddb]

Also, we had this argument not too long ago and nothing has changed since (apart from he has broken the world record ODI score). Yet last time, the anti-Sehwag camp would not listen to his statistics, so why would they now?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v ... 49930.html

Think we can't ignore some coincidences...he's got worse outside of Asia, avg of 43 before is actually good for an opener.

[Red Devil]

Also, we had this argument not too long ago and nothing has changed since (apart from he has broken the world record ODI score). Yet last time, the anti-Sehwag camp would not listen to his statistics, so why would they now?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v ... 49930.html

Think we can't ignore some coincidences...he's got worse outside of Asia, avg of 43 before is actually good for an opener.

Yes, it's far too easy to dismiss him as a flat-track bully, because he had a really good record away from home as well. The problem seems to be that he has lost that ability to cope with foreign conditions, and it could very well be about the passage of time slowing his natural ability.

[ddb]

Yes well averaging the same as Harbhajan Singh and Suresh Raina away from Asia is kind of embarrassing to say the least.

And I hope people are not etched with that memory of him, I suspect many will be.

[braveneutral]

Also, we had this argument not too long ago and nothing has changed since (apart from he has broken the world record ODI score). Yet last time, the anti-Sehwag camp would not listen to his statistics, so why would they now?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v ... 49930.html

Think we can't ignore some coincidences...he's got worse outside of Asia, avg of 43 before is actually good for an opener.

Yeah, but a career average of just a bit under 36 outside of Asia is not hideous (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/stats/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;continent=1;continent=3;continent=4;continent=5;filter=advanced;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting). Ok, he is in a bit of a patch but the history is there to say he can do it. He is definitely not the first one who should be going. Sehwag has issues in general in England and South Africa (ok, he is not doing great in Oz, but he has in the past).

If you look at Gambhir (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28763.html?class=1;continent=1;continent=4;continent=5;filter=advanced;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting), he does badly in England and Australia. All players are not perfect, and indeed if one was to remove 'weak' opposition from their averages outside of Asia, then I am sure you would see that Sehwag performs better against the stronger opposition than his opening partner (who I am not calling to be rid of by the way).

So, if we take their performances in Aus, Eng and SA (arguably the three major opponents outside of Asia), then we see that Sehwag (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/stats/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=3;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting) actually once more out performs his batting partner (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28763.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=3;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting).

This tends to suggest that the problems that everyone associates with Sehwag are over-inflated. Ok, he has a lack of leg movement at times, but then Dravid has the same problem it seems now. Also, to suddenly be on his back now is a bit much as the quality of batting in Australia (by Indians) has been absolutely appalling.

[ddb]

Yeah, but a career average of just a bit under 36 outside of Asia is not hideous (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/stats/eng ... pe=batting). Ok, he is in a bit of a patch but the history is there to say he can do it. He is definitely not the first one who should be going. Sehwag has issues in general in England and South Africa (ok, he is not doing great in Oz, but he has in the past).

It's not great at 36 and there's no doubt he should be moving down the order IMO. It's not a bit of a patch really as last time he performed away from Asia was Jan 08, he still performing in Asia, there's a clear problem.

If you look at Gambhir (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting), he does badly in England and Australia. All players are not perfect, and indeed if one was to remove 'weak' opposition from their averages outside of Asia, then I am sure you would see that Sehwag performs better against the stronger opposition than his opening partner (who I am not calling to be rid of by the way).

Gambhir is in a rut no doubt, but his rut is everywhere. Whereas Sehwhag's is just away from Asia...there's a difference. And there's no way Sehwag has performed better than Gambhir away in the period they've both been in the team.

So, if we take their performances in Aus, Eng and SA (arguably the three major opponents outside of Asia), then we see that Sehwag (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/stats/eng ... pe=batting) actually once more out performs his batting partner (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting).

Again the problem is not the history of Sehwag outside of Asia. It was fine till Jan 2008. You compare their records since Feb 2008 and Gambhir's is much better and that's while he's been in a rut not scoring even in India...

This tends to suggest that the problems that everyone associates with Sehwag are over-inflated. Ok, he has a lack of leg movement at times, but then Dravid has the same problem it seems now. Also, to suddenly be on his back now is a bit much as the quality of batting in Australia (by Indians) has been absolutely appalling.

Why is it a bit much? How anyone can defend him averaging below Suresh Raina outside of Asia since 08 is pretty hilarious tbh. The issue here isn't whether he's done in the past IMO, it might be in Shanky's but that's a different argument. I can bring up VVS' average in the past and argue a massive case for him.

You can argue for and against every player on this tour of course, but Sehwag's is a more deep rooted problem than most. Let him bat lower down the order, I don't see why you're against this.

[andy]

does anyone know if the rumour about laxman retiring after adelaide is true or not?

[braveneutral]

I am not against him batting down the order at all. I am against him being removed from the team completely. I think he could bat down the order away but still open in Asia. His devastating play when he is on song can take a game away from the opposition from almost the first ball.