Sachin Tendulkar

[Gingerfinch]

Cook might even eclipse Tendulkar!

So therefore become a better player

[greyblazer]

Kallis is a great player but even in his dreams he won't be able to play the kind of knocks Lara played at Barbados and against Murali at his peak in 01. In 01/02 there didn't seem to be a batsman who could even touch Murali's almost unplayable doosras but Lara made him look very ordinary. All other batsmen looked like were playing on a different wicket during that series. Just one bad series against England in 04 doesn't mean much.

Actually S'wag at his counter attacking best and on occasions Haq and Flower are the only other batsmen who I have seen play well against Murali at his best.

[greyblazer]

This is not related to the best batsman discussion but as far as Junior was concerned he too has played some fine knocks under pressure. His 116 at PE in 96/97 against SA, his 100 against Amby and co. on a difficult wicket at Melbourne in 92/93, the 100 at Jamaica in 94/95, 100 at Adelaide in 97/98 against SA, against Younis, Akram and co. in 95/96 at Sydney, his 100 at Durban in 93/94 and many more came against good attacks and under pressure. It was just that he couldn't get big scores as his highest score was just 153 and the way he played made people think that he couldn't do well under pressure.

[Gingerfinch]

Grey
Would it be fair to say that M Waugh was a better ODI player than Test?

[greyblazer]

Yes he was as he couldn't get big scores in tests and that is why he would go down in history books as only a good test match batsman. The mistake I see cricket fans make when they think of him is they consider him as a fair-weather batsman which is wrong.

[Cynomis]

Seven more runs, and Kallis will have scored more runs than Lara.
Kallis has more centuries 40 vs 34
more half-centuries 54 vs 48
fewer ducks 10 vs 17
better batting average 57.4 vs 52.9

Lara may be more attractive to watch, but hey wait, Kallis has a new rug on his head and his confidence has shot up since.

[Gingerfinch]

More stats?

[greyblazer]

Cook may get 40 100's and and score about 12000 runs but that doesn't make him better than Trumper. Sanga may average 56-57 but for me he isn't as good as Flower.

There is lot more than just runs and averages which I see to judge a batsman. In an all time great batsman I look at whether he could consistently score runs by attacking as well as when needed could he defend. In the last 20 years only SRT and Lara fall into that category. Only on occasions Punter could do it.

What sort of team he was playing is another factor I look at.Lara played for a weak team and yet could do well. Lara also played better attacks in the 90's and on pitches that weren't roads and still succeeded. In a series in SA about 10 years ago every-time on bouncy tracks WI seemed to be in trouble but every-time Lara was getting runs. Of course no one can forget Lara's knocks against Murali in 01/02.Kallis is a great accumulator of runs but can't be compared to Lara.

[Gingerfinch]

Shanky
You quite often bring up a players average in England (Sehwag comes to mind).

Well, Kallis averages 29 from 12 tests in England.

[Cynomis]

Right, Kallis has not scored many runs in England. Not sure why. He negotiates pace bowlers well.

I also don't understand why Lara has such a low batting average vs India. He is a good player of spin.

I suppose these just some of the aberrations that just happen when you play over hundred test matches.

[ddb]

That's why Sachin who doesn't average below 40 anywhere is a quite a good player.

[Gingerfinch]

Right, Kallis has not scored many runs in England. Not sure why. He negotiates pace bowlers well.

I also don't understand why Lara has such a low batting average vs India. He is a good player of spin.

I suppose these just some of the aberrations that just happen when you play over hundred test matches.

I agree, just pointing my stat out to Shanky who likes to bring the 'average in England' stat up when discussing players.

btw

Lara was a 'great' player of spin....IMO.

[greyblazer]

From what I know Lara played just 3 tests in India

Secondly whenever I used to watch Lara play against India he used to have problems against the angle that underrated Indian seamer Javs used to create across Lara. There were many times when Javs used to trouble him and finally he would get out to run of the mill spinners at the other end.

[greyblazer]

When it comes to playing spin I would rate Lara slightly better than even SRT.

[Cynomis]

When it comes to playing spin I would rate Lara slightly better than even SRT.

I wonder why Lara has a poor batting average vs India.