Spot Fixing?

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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby sussexpob » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:14 am

ddb wrote:Yes and if Pakistan players did play in the IPL, we'd have about 2000 more problems to deal with, especially at government level.



Simple ddb, no cause- no effect!

Amir- Bowls his team to a world cup final win in T20, quite clearly the best young pace bowler in recent years, arguably already at 18 one of the top three seamers in the world currently.

He earns on his retainer contract from the PCB £1,300 per month. Every time he plays he make about £1,000 extra, meaning that a full calendar of international cricket could make him say £50,000 a year, give or take how many games he plays due to fitness and schedule.

Sharma- SImilar age and situation(promising pace bowler, good initial start), Sharma has a 40 lakh contract with the BCCI, worth on todays rate 56k in sterling. He gets paid double the match fee, so his earnings from the national team are already looking around double should he play a full international calendar.

Sharma though has made literally a mountain more cash than Amir. 950,000$ in 2008 IPL, 975,000$ in 2009, 900,000$ in 2010..... By bowing less balls in the IPL season than Amir may bowl in half a 4 match test series, he earns 10 times Amir's yearly wage from Pakistan....

Then you have endorsements.... Dhoni is earning 10's of millions in the IPL($42MILL in 3 years!!). Sharma's sponsership endorsements with Nike ,in terms of revenue , will simply destroy the small amount that Amir gets as being part of Pepsi in Pakistan.

You think is someone offered you less money you were earning for a months work in the IPL to throw a match and risk your career, you would say yes? In contrast, do you think that if I offered you treble your yearly income to do it, you would be more inclined?

SImply put, if Amir was earning the money of Sharma he wouldnt risk a bright future for a fraction of his pay. Is it no great shock that the other player involved in the no ball bowling was a player who's future in the IPL is permenantly dead after a anti-doping charge? He has no future risk to take, and overstepping twice in a few matches makes more money for him than the rest of his career(Asif).

Dont be naive ddb. We are talking about money, and if these players were earning the money vastly inferior players were getting, you would simply not see it. May I remind you before the big money came to India, India was also rife with bookmakers.... more players have recieved life time bans from India than Pakistan....

So to suggest its inherent for anyother reason that wage earnings is wrong in my eyes.... there would be no more problem in the IPL, and less of a risk in the international arena, if Pakistani players were in the IPL.

Its generally well appreciated that crime is worst in areas of "social exclusion"....... I dont think you need help in spotting the link between normal criminology reasoning, and the current status of Pakistani cricket.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby Mr Popodopolous » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:32 am

Of the 3, I guess the one least likely to be culpable would be Amir.

He is the youngest. secondly in a culture such as Pakistan the captain has a very vital role apparently because those who are younger are fully expected to fall in line with the wishes of elders, thirdly it is quite possible he is barely literate, came from a really rural village etc.

That is to say, if they are found guilty of course.

Lastly, why life bans exactly? I don't recall Messrs Gibbs, Warne and Waugh getting life bans for bookies related incidents?

In fact, here is an interesting article chronicling the last decade and sporting bets.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby sussexpob » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:48 am

Mr Popodopolous wrote:Of the 3, I guess the one least likely to be culpable would be Amir.



On the flipside, he is also the most likely stereotype in the team to turn to crime. Young man of extreme talent, whos skills are not earning what they should, and see the illegitimate way of achieving the lifestyle he thinks his social status and skills deserve.

Unfortunately Amir is sadly very reflective of many, many criminals of a similar age!


Mr Popodopolous wrote:Lastly, why life bans exactly? I don't recall Messrs Gibbs, Warne and Waugh getting life bans for bookies related incidents?


The CBI investigation in India which looked into the bookmaker in question had testimony from the accused that backed up Waugh's suggestion that the two had met before and passed nothing but information on. In the grand scheme of things, and looking at the CBI's full report, in the most contentious areas the bookie in question was silent on, so this admission of a low level offence is probably evidence that Waugh/Warne's involvement never got passed a mere exchange of info for cash..... no results changed in effect, and the tests in question did not compromise the integrity of the game... hence a much lesser punishment.

As for Gibbs, in this situation Cronje actually saved Gibbs career if I remember correctly. Cronje was already public enemy no 1, and told the trial in SA that he had put very high pressure and threats to Gibbs, and that Gibbs had not wanted to do it.

Cronje said that he offered the team in 3 different full squad meetings, the terms of an agreement to throw a game, and he played on Gibbs racial vunerablities(also Henry Williams as the other black player in the team) to twist his arm.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby ddb » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:13 am

sussexpob wrote:
ddb wrote:Yes and if Pakistan players did play in the IPL, we'd have about 2000 more problems to deal with, especially at government level.



Simple ddb, no cause- no effect!

Amir- Bowls his team to a world cup final win in T20, quite clearly the best young pace bowler in recent years, arguably already at 18 one of the top three seamers in the world currently.

He earns on his retainer contract from the PCB £1,300 per month. Every time he plays he make about £1,000 extra, meaning that a full calendar of international cricket could make him say £50,000 a year, give or take how many games he plays due to fitness and schedule.

Sharma- SImilar age and situation(promising pace bowler, good initial start), Sharma has a 40 lakh contract with the BCCI, worth on todays rate 56k in sterling. He gets paid double the match fee, so his earnings from the national team are already looking around double should he play a full international calendar.

Sharma though has made literally a mountain more cash than Amir. 950,000$ in 2008 IPL, 975,000$ in 2009, 900,000$ in 2010..... By bowing less balls in the IPL season than Amir may bowl in half a 4 match test series, he earns 10 times Amir's yearly wage from Pakistan....

Then you have endorsements.... Dhoni is earning 10's of millions in the IPL($42MILL in 3 years!!). Sharma's sponsership endorsements with Nike ,in terms of revenue , will simply destroy the small amount that Amir gets as being part of Pepsi in Pakistan.

You think is someone offered you less money you were earning for a months work in the IPL to throw a match and risk your career, you would say yes? In contrast, do you think that if I offered you treble your yearly income to do it, you would be more inclined?

SImply put, if Amir was earning the money of Sharma he wouldnt risk a bright future for a fraction of his pay. Is it no great shock that the other player involved in the no ball bowling was a player who's future in the IPL is permenantly dead after a anti-doping charge? He has no future risk to take, and overstepping twice in a few matches makes more money for him than the rest of his career(Asif).

Dont be naive ddb. We are talking about money, and if these players were earning the money vastly inferior players were getting, you would simply not see it. May I remind you before the big money came to India, India was also rife with bookmakers.... more players have recieved life time bans from India than Pakistan....

So to suggest its inherent for anyother reason that wage earnings is wrong in my eyes.... there would be no more problem in the IPL, and less of a risk in the international arena, if Pakistani players were in the IPL.

Its generally well appreciated that crime is worst in areas of "social exclusion"....... I dont think you need help in spotting the link between normal criminology reasoning, and the current status of Pakistani cricket.



how did you get that out my post? :lmao

I've already highlighted the 4000 fee for man of series is way too low in todays age and Amir probably got 10000 for 1 no ball.

LOL so you are saying if we allowed Pakistan with their mucked up government into India everything would be fine and there would have been no problems. No terrorist attacks etc etc, cos the IPL would have filled the Pakistani's greed and the world would be fine again, lets forget about people's safety and make a few players happy? Let's also get the ICC to patch up India's government with Pakistan's and then we can pay these players more and we would have no match fixing in the world at all.

Or lets reward players more for them being good in a series, increase the winning fee in test matches, man of the series etc etc. Try to establish and link between Pakistan and India, and eventually allow Pakistan county teams to participate in the champions league outside of India for safety for all concerned. And ban the crooks that did the spot fixing etc either for a certain amount of time or life bans for repeat offenders and this will set the example to the rest of the world, that it will not be tolerated in cricket. It may still go on after this but saying the IPL will solve everything is not right IMO, what about county cricket, the big bash. Yeah greed is probably in these players, it's not excuse at all.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby ddb » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:30 am

Btw: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/au ... t-pakistan That's basically your whole post. :lmao :fit
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby sussexpob » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:13 am

ddb wrote:Btw: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/au ... t-pakistan That's basically your whole post. :lmao :fit


And your point is? Im I no longer allowed to read newspaper articles printed online? Did I fail to Harvard reference the article/s in question that back up the post, or served as inspiration for my comments? Please do share, what is your point?

If you would like me to start posting a bibliography with my posts then simply ask.....


ddb wrote:how did you get that out my post?

I've already highlighted the 4000 fee for man of series is way too low in todays age and Amir probably got 10000 for 1 no ball.

LOL so you are saying if we allowed Pakistan with their mucked up government into India everything would be fine and there would have been no problems. No terrorist attacks etc etc, cos the IPL would have filled the Pakistani's greed and the world would be fine again, lets forget about people's safety and make a few players happy? Let's also get the ICC to patch up India's government with Pakistan's and then we can pay these players more and we would have no match fixing in the world at all.


I cant respond to this.... its just too infantile
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby meninblue » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:26 am

sussexpob wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:Although they aren't on Tendulkar or Dhoni money, they are still paid more than enough money to live on.




Wonder if the complete snub of Pakistan players in the IPL auction caused this a little.... after all, its stopping Pakistan's best players earning the highest level, and they were word champion quality before that Auction!



That's what the television media broadcasted for about one day in India on some news channels. As per one of the many mega news report, Butt and other had purchased huge properties and expensive cars expecting huge cash inflow from IPL3. However, due to the IPL snub they could not repay. The media report has attributed this as one of the possible causes for this acceptance of offer by Butt and others.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby GordoninPortsmouth » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 am

sportbloggeradi wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:Although they aren't on Tendulkar or Dhoni money, they are still paid more than enough money to live on.




Wonder if the complete snub of Pakistan players in the IPL auction caused this a little.... after all, its stopping Pakistan's best players earning the highest level, and they were word champion quality before that Auction!



That's what the television media broadcasted for about one day in India on some news channels. As per one of the many mega news report, Butt and other had purchased huge properties and expensive cars expecting huge cash inflow from IPL3. However, due to the IPL snub they could not repay. The media report has attributed this as one of the possible causes for this acceptance of offer by Butt and others.


Whilst I understand all of that (and have some sympathy with the Pak players as a result) I am still yet to be convinced that greed for money is in anyway a reasonable defence for a crime committed.

The issue with the IPL is a separate issue.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby keshto » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:09 am

ddb I fail to see how Pakistan player playing in the IPL would have had an impact on terrorism in India. In fact, it could do the opposite as India would open their arms to Pakistan so it would not be yet another reason to hate India.

Maybe if Pakistani players had been offered IPL contracts they would not be doing spot fixing or what ever they call that, and maybe not, you couldn't really say for sure.

Certainly not IPL's fault though that all this happened, you could probably implicate a lot of things as causes to this, maybe if he had won the lottery he would not have been tempted, maybe etc. Doesn't make much sense to talk about IPL in this though.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby meninblue » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:41 am

GordoninPortsmouth wrote:
sportbloggeradi wrote:
Whilst I understand all of that (and have some sympathy with the Pak players as a result) I am still yet to be convinced that greed for money is in anyway a reasonable defence for a crime committed.
The issue with the IPL is a separate issue.


Lawson and Rameez are saying that the underworld threats must have forced them. Even in that case i feel they should be banned from playing all formats and levels of cricket be it forced acceptance of offer or willingness.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby DeltaAlpha » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:44 am

Why they committed the crimes, if indeed there were crimes, is totally immaterial to their innocence or guilt. If found guilty, the reason can only be offered in mitigation; for example, if they were threatened, under duress or the like. I doubt that pleading wanting, or even needing, the money would carry a great deal of weight in mitigation...
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby SaintPowelly » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:56 am

There was a thing on TV a while back that documented that a high % of people that shoplift, do it because of the thrill of getting caught rather than actually needing/wanting what they are taking.

Unless the bookie or players decide to speak out about the claims, then we will never know why they did it, we only assume that it was for financial gain.
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby mikesiva » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:59 pm

Salman, Asif and Amir have all pulled out of the tour, due to 'mental torture'....

http://www.cricinfo.com/england-v-pakis ... 75559.html

Funny how Kamran has escaped so far. He seems to be like teflon....
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby Alviro Patterson » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:21 pm

Mental torture as in guilt? :hmmm
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Re: Pakistan Spot Fixing?

Postby keshto » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:31 pm

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