Random Cricket Thread (International Cricket)

[sussexpob]

Australia cancels the ODI series it has against Afghanistan due to Afghanistan showing no sign of implementing woman's cricket. This is a must for all full member countries. Obviously the ACB and many of its players are complaining about this and calling it political. I for one am glad though that CA have done this and hope other countries follow suit. To be a full member then you must have womans cricket. Simple really

I think its easy in a first world country to ask why women's cricket is not being funded, but the reality is even with the most successful examples of female sporting sides in the world atm, how many of those rely heavily on the facilities and structures of the male game? Take Lyon, who dominate women's football at a European level..... they generate hardly any revenue at all. Their playing budget is mostly a complete write off, and thats without the fact most of their facilities aren't included in the costs.

How exactly do you expect Afghanistan, a war torn country with collapsed infrastructure and no history of cricketing structure, to be able to withstand a loss making venture like woman's sport? Worth noting too, the ICC havent paid them any funding since 2021, so even if they waned to, they have no money to invest.

Back in the day, England's ladies were all part-time workers or students, had to rely on the support of those around them or jobs. I wonder how many people in a third world country could sustain that (pretty much no one). I believe the vast majority of the men (if not all) have links to Pakistan refugee camps, and were all brought up in the Pakistan system, so Afghanistan really hasnt ever proved it even has the capacity to sustain male FC.

Id say this is just a cynical cancellation to avoid having to play a series that makes no money.

[yuppie]

Well i would expect the ACB to encourage womans cricket in their country. I would expect them to use the funds allocated to them for the growth of the sport to include money to go to the growth of womans cricket. When they use this funding to build infrastructure for the game which they have started, they allow woman to also use those same facilities. The same facilities that the men are using. Its not difficult. Cricket facilities have also been in place during the war. These are not great but there is something there. There has not even been a token effort to encourage any sport for woman in the country. The actual opposite is happening.

The war torn country has somehow managed to find time to support and run mens cricket. They receive funding from the ICC to fund womans cricket. Even Sweden does and they are a long way from full member status. In no way are people expecting them to have a successful woman's FC league in the next 20 years. But what they do want to see is some sign that woman's cricket is being supported.

The Taliban do not want woman to play sport, so how long do you think the ICC and Western countries humour them before they do something about it?

Our club has a female player from Afghanistan just arrived. She is seeking asylum. Her male cousin is already here. She is seeking asylum because before the Taliban took over she was captain of a womans team, a team that had over 30 participants. this team was playing during the war and sharing facilities with local male teams. When the Taliban took over she went into hiding as it was reported she was being searched for by the Taliban due to her profile as an independent woman who encourage woman to play sport.

She managed to sneak out of the country late last year. But yeah, western values and all that.

The Australian womans team has received a lot of recognition over the years with even a few players becoming household names. Im sure the bad press generated from the male team playing Afghanistan in an international game was more in the boards minds than money. Its not a good look. But hey who knows, maybe in a few years the Taliban will allow woman to play sport, study, work and travel on their own with out a male escort. Perhaps woman in Afghanistan will enjoy the same freedoms their male counterparts enjoy. Its just my western morals that are stopping me from seeing the bigger picture.

The only time Australia will play Afghanistan in future will be at ICC events. Australia already has a history with this stance. They cancelled a test match in Australia because of this. That would have generated more than enough money to break even. But its not the look CA want to put forward and i for one am happy with that. And i really dont give CA much credit for much else.

[sussexpob]

I deleted my first response to your post. I can't be bothered with arguing about it.

It's suffice to say I think it's a little bit perverse that a country like Australia, which was involved in a 20 year invasion/military occupation of Afghanistan on dubious grounds, chooses inclusion in cricket to try to and claim some moral high ground over them.

Maybe they should invest more in bringing all the afghans that risked their life to assist then, but like other countries, buggered off in a jet and left to be killed or tortured.

[sussexpob]

I'll add... Australia are less to blame than the UK. It's not a dig at them....but the west have a lot of blame for what Afghanistan became ...simply turning their noses at it...sorry, don't wash

[yuppie]

Im not really sure how to reply to that as im not sure we are talking about the same thing.

My view is that Australia should not play against a country that discriminates against half its population due to the gender of those people. The Taliban were in power before the invasion. Now they are back in power and implementing the same rules they had previously. They would not have had a international men's cricket team if not for the invasion.

Cricket Australia is acting on what the Taliban are doing to woman in Afghanistan. This was not an issue before the invasion for CA because Afghanistan did not have an international mens team and were not a full member of the ICC. Afghanistan became full members of the ICC before the Taliban took over and by becoming full members they agreed to have a female team and promote female cricket.

Since the Taliban got back into power they have gone back to their old ways and stopped female sport. If Afghanistan does not comply with ICC rules to the point that the ICC does not release funding for cricket in the country, why do people think its fine for a country like Australia to play a series against the same country for them to make money of it?

CA have done the right thing for once in my view. We shall agree to disagree.

[bigfluffylemon]

Couldn't agree more, yuppie.

Sussex, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've missed the part where this isn't just about women's cricket, it's about the Taliban's treatment of women in general, because it's sure as hell coming across as though you're defending the Afghan regime. CA has explicitly said that this is about more than cricket, it's about the fact that the Taliban is denying women access to education, jobs and basic human rights. We refused to play South Africa over the way they treated some of their population as well.

Yes, Australia and the UK have to bear some blame for what is going on in Afghanistan, but does playing cricket against them and implicitly supporting their oppressive regime go about rectifying that? All it does is help prop up the Taliban by allowing them to make money off it.

[alfie]

Have to agree completely with Yuppie and BFL here : reckon CA have done the right thing - and would hope other countries do the same. While the Taliban treat half their population in the manner they do it simply doesn't seem right to accept their National (male) sporting teams and disregard the fact that women are not allowed to play their sport (among other things !)

I do have some sympathy for the men who will be deprived of at least some International cricket : but even if no-one played with Afghanistan they would still be able to contest franchise cricket (don't think anyone is suggesting they be stopped from that). So no worse off than South African players who lost entire Test careers when the apartheid regime was -rightly- frozen out for all those years. Or a lot of Russians in various sports at the moment.

Main downside to all this is that the Taliban bosses probably won't give a toss while the general population does lose some joy of participation. And I am not holding my breath for this "protest action" to have the effect of changing their policy on women's rights. So it is a "least worst" rather than a best solution - but that doesn't make it wrong. For once , I am giving CA a big tick

[sussexpob]

by becoming full members they agreed to have a female team and promote female cricket

The direct opposite is true... the ICC specifically awarded Afghanistan full international status without requiring them to have a female team, due to their unique cultural and social situation. It was deemed the situation in the country made such a goal unrealistic.

Afghanistan does not comply with ICC rules to the point that the ICC does not release funding for cricket in the country

Again, this is not true. The reason the ICC cannot provide funding is due to international law and ongoing economic sanctions - its physically impossible to transfer money there, and has nothing to do with a lack of investment in woman's cricket.

why do people think its fine for a country like Australia to play a series against the same country for them to make money of it?

It's fine, because such a scenario is impossible for the reasons explained above.

[sussexpob]

Sussex, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've missed the part where this isn't just about women's cricket, it's about the Taliban's treatment of women in general, because it's sure as hell coming across as though you're defending the Afghan regime. CA has explicitly said that this is about more than cricket, it's about the fact that the Taliban is denying women access to education, jobs and basic human rights

Afghanistan has one of the youngest population demographics in the world, so the majority of people in the country were actually born after the Western Invasion of the country in 2001 and never lived under the Taliban - in that time of relative social utopia, it managed 17% literary rate in females, and only 16% of work aged females (over 15) were part of the work-force in some capacity (both figures from the world bank). The country is bottom, or somewhere very close, on every single human development index metric.

20 years of independence and the West quest to rebuild the country did wonders for woman's education, jobs and basic human rights... didn't it? Well no, because it turns out blowing up bridges, roads, infrastructure, having no electricity, and having anyone with any skills escape a war zone ends up with similar results to banning it outright. That's not my opinion by the way, thats an unanimously accepted academic fact.

So for a country that involved itself in that "effort" to now point fingers at the country and claim some moral high ground over it... its pretty sick, isnt it?

I think Afghanistan's cricketers have more of a right to refuse to play Australia on moral grounds, than visa versa. The Taliban are a horrendous organisation, but I think even they might do well to achieve total annihilation of the country's economy, 273k dead, 20 million temporary displaced, 6 permanently, and leave an estimated 89% of their population with acute mental illness.

But hey, acknowledging that is apparently defending the Taliban. So we can just ignore it ever happened, and blame them for everything.

[sussexpob]

Our club has a female player from Afghanistan just arrived. She is seeking asylum. Her male cousin is already here. She is seeking asylum because before the Taliban took over she was captain of a womans team, a team that had over 30 participants. this team was playing during the war and sharing facilities with local male teams. When the Taliban took over she went into hiding as it was reported she was being searched for by the Taliban due to her profile as an independent woman who encourage woman to play sport

Which is where this moral crusade becomes even more laughable. If CA or the ICC gave a flying t*ss about Afghan woman, then why did they lie about being contacted by them asking for help? As the Taliban surged to victory, the newly centrally contracted womans team apparently reached out to the ICC and other cricket boards for assistance on getting out the country - no one respond to them, then the ICC released a press release lying about receiving no contact.

A lot of these woman then escaped Afghanistan independently, and appealed for funding and status from the ICC to play under the national team banner as a travelling away side - they were told it wasn't possible.

Has a top side ever played Afghanistan ladies? Have they ever supported them in anyway? Offered to host them? Offered them training deals or opportunities? Has anyone acknowledged the existing players plea? Of course, the answer is no.

No one cares at all, so why pretend? It only mattered when CA had to drag themselves to play a no doubt aimlessly one sided series that will generate nothing in income or interest.

I guess in the coming weeks a replacement tour will be announced featuring a team that will generate a bit more bunsen.... but it wont have been that, not at all.

[yuppie]

Yeah. OK. This will go in circles and your pretty set in your views, as am i.

Just a yes of no answer SP. Should international sporting teams continue to play against Afghanistan whilst the Taliban is in charge and enacting their current views. I don't need to read your reasoning I just want to break it down to its most simple answer. Yes or no.

[sussexpob]

Just a yes of no answer SP. Should international sporting teams continue to play against Afghanistan whilst the Taliban is in charge and enacting their current views. I don't need to read your reasoning I just want to break it down to its most simple answer. Yes or no.

Australian cricketers have played IPL and international tournaments in the UAE, where homosexuality can incur the death penalty or life imprisonment. They have also recently played T20Is in two Caribbean countries were it is punishable by 10 years in prison. Going back a decade or so, this goes up by a further 4 countries. Also Bangladesh and Pakistan

Australia's rugby 7 side just won a tournament in Hong Kong, where human rights basically doesnt exist anymore, and who recently refused to give statutory protections to LGBTQI+ discrimination.

Australia's premier golfer just signed up to a Saudi tour, a country with many human rights issues.

Australia's premier F1 racer has taken part in races in several countries with dubious records on rights, including two of those already mentioned.

Australia sent a team to a Chinese Winter Olympics, at a time the host country were known to be ethnically cleansing and forcibly detaining millions of Uighurs.

Australia just sent a football team to Qatar, I dont think I need to expand on that.

Australia's premier boxers have fought in events in Saudi

Australian rugby teams regularly play Tonga and Samoa, where homosexuality is also illegal and punished harshly

I could go on.....

It appears that how much of a toss is given about "making a stand" is directly proportional to how much money or status is on offer to play. Lets not pretend Australia or any nation cares about any of this stuff.

[yuppie]

So is that a yes? Im just curious in your view. And i guessing here, but your answer is yes because of the Hypocrisy of governments like Australia?

Thats all i want to know.

[sussexpob]

I think I have made it clear, but yes... I think Australia should play Afghanistan.

Save for the reason that I do not believe that sporting boycott's work in general, supported by historical examples, one has to put themselves in the shoes of the intended target of this message. You want to change Afghanistan's cultural outlook and to bring about change? Well, what example are you providing to these people? That it's ok for all of your sports stars to make money playing in countries where womans rights, LGBTQI+ rights, freedom of speech or expression nigh on doesn't exist, but for some reason you draw the line with playing Afghanistan based on the same reasons? A country that the West bombed into the stone age then left in a smoldering wreck to be taken over by the Taliban, because it turned out after 20 years of failing in their task to positively change it, it all became a little too hard and expensive and you just buggered off leaving it to its fate?

I am not sure that is going to engender the spirit of positive change you want, and history shows it has the opposite effect. Such behaviour just leaves people feeling angry and victimized, and makes sure 20 years down the line, there is another load of mentalists you need to drop bombs on. So while we can all feel all warm and fuzzy inside about how great we are, the reality is next weekend we will be tuning in for our next dose of sports funded by blood money from some despotic, undemocratic rich state looking to sports wash their reputation.

Can one watch Man City play every week, and then demand sporting boycotts? I think its a bizarre position in my view.

[yuppie]

For those interested.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-22/ ... /101872060