Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Good to see Trott on the road back to potentially playing for England again. In an agressive top order he could be a real asset to the side, sadly we don't have one of those.

Love to see Trott back. A top 3 of Bell, Hales and Trott is a nice mix of skills. The elephant in the room is Cook - we'll just have to hope the selectors have got it right.

clubcricketeradi wrote:

rich1uk wrote:I would like to see trott back , despite my concerns over whether he is the player he was

however if it means we end up with a top 4 of cook, bell, trott and root I would despair

might help cure my insomnia tho

imo Trott is England's best ODI player. When he is in form he plays longer innings than other England batters and his consistency is probably better than rest of their batters. Without his runs (bad form or absence due to stress) England will definitely struggle.

I agree he is England's best ODI player. So Cook, Hales, Trott in ODIs and maybe opening with Cook in Tests. He comes in early anyway when we lost Strauss or Cook.

One ODI combination?
Cook Hales Trott Stokes Root Morgan Buttler Broad Tredwell Finn Anderson

Slipstream wrote:

clubcricketeradi wrote:

rich1uk wrote:I would like to see trott back , despite my concerns over whether he is the player he was

however if it means we end up with a top 4 of cook, bell, trott and root I would despair

might help cure my insomnia tho

imo Trott is England's best ODI player. When he is in form he plays longer innings than other England batters and his consistency is probably better than rest of their batters. Without his runs (bad form or absence due to stress) England will definitely struggle.

I agree he is England's best ODI player. So Cook, Hales, Trott in ODIs and maybe opening with Cook in Tests. He comes in early anyway when we lost Strauss or Cook.

One ODI combination?
Cook Hales Trott Stokes Root Morgan Buttler Broad Tredwell Finn Anderson

From England's perspective, they are struggling because they do not have enough quality and experience in the ODI 11 team. Finding the ideal combination without having quality resources is impossible.

imo Trott would be very well placed at 3.

Packing the 50 overs batting lineup even with the likes of Afridi,Pollard,Kluesner,Corey Anderson, Yusuf Pathan and placing just one long innings player will not help. Neither will it help if there is a batting lineup of Cook,Bell,Trott,Joe and Gary and placing just one Morgan or one Jos in it. It requires the correct combo of long innings and fast scorers even to plan a 50 over innings. Adapting to the ODI format and giving right combination of runs and SR seems to be the main problem of English batters imo.

Only Trott and Morgan give a proper ballance between average and SR. Others struggle to have a acceptable ratio. You have Cook and Joe who score only around 37 runs per innings but even then they cannot score @SR of 85+ or 90+.

If one player change can solve many problems then he imo is Cook. If he is dropped one player who cannot balance the average-SR combo is got rid off. There is more scope to occupy Joe and Bell. Joe clearly lacks power hitting. Given his batting position and he plays spinners in middle overs, power hitting becomes crucial for a 6. Once can hit a 6er off the front as well as back foot with pure timing but it definitely helps if there is some more force especially on back foot pulls against pace of spinners. Joe or anyone else giving 37 runs per innings at SR of 79 is not helping the cause in this format with the existing rules. He has to improve either his average by many runs or SR by another 15 more runs per 100 balls. imo he is another problem which is getting unnoticed or probably being justified by inexperience. Similarly Bell is a problem considering Bell has failed to maintain the average-SR combination as well as lack of tons even after playing so many matches in top order. Yes, his average-SR are better since 2012 but that combo is still not up to the mark. Too many changes cannot be made without lack of other better alternatives though. Cook who has flopped more than others has to go first. Lets us see if Alex and others can maintain a good avg-SR combo. It should not be such that they are allowed to average just 25 runs just because they score at SR of 100. Such career avg-SR is useless. Hence with just few players who are up to the mark (imo Trott,Morgan,Jos) there is no point in trying to replace all non performers at one go be it those haveing less SR or those having less average.

ECB have wasted precious time over Cook in this ODI format in last year or so. They have probably also not identified other problems in the team. More problems have surfaced during the lead up to 2015 WC than there were before. The batting innings is heavily depends on how Trott,Morgan and Jos would perform. Bowling wise, every countrys bowlers get tonked. But lack of good spinning options is a problem.

clubcricketeradi wrote:
From England's perspective, they are struggling because they do not have enough quality and experience in the ODI 11 team. Finding the ideal combination without having quality resources is impossible.

imo Trott would be very well placed at 3.

Packing the 50 overs batting lineup even with the likes of Afridi,Pollard,Kluesner,Corey Anderson, Yusuf Pathan and placing just one long innings player will not help. Neither will it help if there is a batting lineup of Cook,Bell,Trott,Joe and Gary and placing just one Morgan or one Jos in it. It requires the correct combo of long innings and fast scorers even to plan a 50 over innings. Adapting to the ODI format and giving right combination of runs and SR seems to be the main problem of English batters imo.

Only Trott and Morgan give a proper ballance between average and SR. Others struggle to have a acceptable ratio. You have Cook and Joe who score only around 37 runs per innings but even then they cannot score @SR of 85+ or 90+.

If one player change can solve many problems then he imo is Cook. If he is dropped one player who cannot balance the average-SR combo is got rid off. There is more scope to occupy Joe and Bell. Joe clearly lacks power hitting. Given his batting position and he plays spinners in middle overs, power hitting becomes crucial for a 6. Once can hit a 6er off the front as well as back foot with pure timing but it definitely helps if there is some more force especially on back foot pulls against pace of spinners. Joe or anyone else giving 37 runs per innings at SR of 79 is not helping the cause in this format with the existing rules. He has to improve either his average by many runs or SR by another 15 more runs per 100 balls. imo he is another problem which is getting unnoticed or probably being justified by inexperience. Similarly Bell is a problem considering Bell has failed to maintain the average-SR combination as well as lack of tons even after playing so many matches in top order. Yes, his average-SR are better since 2012 but that combo is still not up to the mark. Too many changes cannot be made without lack of other better alternatives though. Cook who has flopped more than others has to go first. Lets us see if Alex and others can maintain a good avg-SR combo. It should not be such that they are allowed to average just 25 runs just because they score at SR of 100. Such career avg-SR is useless. Hence with just few players who are up to the mark (imo Trott,Morgan,Jos) there is no point in trying to replace all non performers at one go be it those haveing less SR or those having less average.

ECB have wasted precious time over Cook in this ODI format in last year or so. They have probably also not identified other problems in the team. More problems have surfaced during the lead up to 2015 WC than there were before. The batting innings is heavily depends on how Trott,Morgan and Jos would perform. Bowling wise, every countrys bowlers get tonked. But lack of good spinning options is a problem.

England do have the personnel to become a formidable ODI side, but it's inconsistent squad selection and accommodating test players who are not natural one day players which hamper progress. The Alastair Cook situation is tricky considering he's England captain and he did lead England to number 1 in the ODI rankings not so long ago. Ian Bell found his niche as an opening ODI bat but he and Cook can't be in the same team as they lack regular flamboyance as limited overs batters.

I think you're a bit harsh on Joe Root tbh, a player averaging 37 at a strike rate of 80 is a good return at international level when he predominantly bats outside the powerplay overs. Aggressive batsmen either side of Joe Root and England would be capable of putting on some match winning totals.

Alviro Patterson wrote:
England do have the personnel to become a formidable ODI side, but it's inconsistent squad selection and accommodating test players who are not natural one day players which hamper progress. The Alastair Cook situation is tricky considering he's England captain and he did lead England to number 1 in the ODI rankings not so long ago. Ian Bell found his niche as an opening ODI bat but he and Cook can't be in the same team as they lack regular flamboyance as limited overs batters.

I think you're a bit harsh on Joe Root tbh, a player averaging 37 at a strike rate of 80 is a good return at international level when he predominantly bats outside the powerplay overs. Aggressive batsmen either side of Joe Root and England would be capable of putting on some match winning totals.

I totally agree with that AP

we do have the players , at least the batters anyway, we just get the balance all wrong and approach our batting in the wrong way as a result

Alviro Patterson wrote:

clubcricketeradi wrote:
From England's perspective, they are struggling because they do not have enough quality and experience in the ODI 11 team. Finding the ideal combination without having quality resources is impossible.

imo Trott would be very well placed at 3.

Packing the 50 overs batting lineup even with the likes of Afridi,Pollard,Kluesner,Corey Anderson, Yusuf Pathan and placing just one long innings player will not help. Neither will it help if there is a batting lineup of Cook,Bell,Trott,Joe and Gary and placing just one Morgan or one Jos in it. It requires the correct combo of long innings and fast scorers even to plan a 50 over innings. Adapting to the ODI format and giving right combination of runs and SR seems to be the main problem of English batters imo.

Only Trott and Morgan give a proper ballance between average and SR. Others struggle to have a acceptable ratio. You have Cook and Joe who score only around 37 runs per innings but even then they cannot score @SR of 85+ or 90+.

If one player change can solve many problems then he imo is Cook. If he is dropped one player who cannot balance the average-SR combo is got rid off. There is more scope to occupy Joe and Bell. Joe clearly lacks power hitting. Given his batting position and he plays spinners in middle overs, power hitting becomes crucial for a 6. Once can hit a 6er off the front as well as back foot with pure timing but it definitely helps if there is some more force especially on back foot pulls against pace of spinners. Joe or anyone else giving 37 runs per innings at SR of 79 is not helping the cause in this format with the existing rules. He has to improve either his average by many runs or SR by another 15 more runs per 100 balls. imo he is another problem which is getting unnoticed or probably being justified by inexperience. Similarly Bell is a problem considering Bell has failed to maintain the average-SR combination as well as lack of tons even after playing so many matches in top order. Yes, his average-SR are better since 2012 but that combo is still not up to the mark. Too many changes cannot be made without lack of other better alternatives though. Cook who has flopped more than others has to go first. Lets us see if Alex and others can maintain a good avg-SR combo. It should not be such that they are allowed to average just 25 runs just because they score at SR of 100. Such career avg-SR is useless. Hence with just few players who are up to the mark (imo Trott,Morgan,Jos) there is no point in trying to replace all non performers at one go be it those haveing less SR or those having less average.

ECB have wasted precious time over Cook in this ODI format in last year or so. They have probably also not identified other problems in the team. More problems have surfaced during the lead up to 2015 WC than there were before. The batting innings is heavily depends on how Trott,Morgan and Jos would perform. Bowling wise, every countrys bowlers get tonked. But lack of good spinning options is a problem.

England do have the personnel to become a formidable ODI side, but it's inconsistent squad selection and accommodating test players who are not natural one day players which hamper progress. The Alastair Cook situation is tricky considering he's England captain and he did lead England to number 1 in the ODI rankings not so long ago. Ian Bell found his niche as an opening ODI bat but he and Cook can't be in the same team as they lack regular flamboyance as limited overs batters.

I think you're a bit harsh on Joe Root tbh, a player averaging 37 at a strike rate of 80 is a good return at international level when he predominantly bats outside the powerplay overs. Aggressive batsmen either side of Joe Root and England would be capable of putting on some match winning totals.

I don't think Cook should be a automatic choice given his poor form even as a player. Having him as captain is making him impossible to drop and imo that position has saved him.

Regarding Joe who has played only in new rules and approach by top competitors, someone averaging 37 in ODI that SR is not at all good nowadays. Either he should be averaging more or having a better SR if his average stays at 37. Same with Cook. Trott gives 52 runs at SR of 77. Joe is consuming only 2 balls less but scoring a massive 15 runs less. Eoin Morgan is at avg 38 with SR 86. The problem is there is not much challenge to the ODI lineup with just 3 batters (Trott,Morgan,Jos) who maintain the average-SR ratio well. The more such ODI players who balance the runs and SR overall career, the better is it for the batting innings of a team. Over a long career subjective skills are often more than fairly reflected in the statistics, apart from the odd exception. End of career every specialist batsman will have tons etc, but how effectively they pace their long and short innings is what will have a impact more often than not.

clubcricketeradi wrote:
I don't think Cook should be a automatic choice given his poor form even as a player. Having him as captain is making him impossible to drop and imo that position has saved him.

Regarding Joe who has played only in new rules and approach by top competitors, someone averaging 37 in ODI that SR is not at all good nowadays. Either he should be averaging more or having a better SR if his average stays at 37. Same with Cook. Trott gives 52 runs at SR of 77. Joe is consuming only 2 balls less but scoring a massive 15 runs less. Eoin Morgan is at avg 38 with SR 86. The problem is there is not much challenge to the ODI lineup with just 3 batters (Trott,Morgan,Jos) who maintain the average-SR ratio well. The more such ODI players who balance the runs and SR overall career, the better is it for the batting innings of a team. Over a long career subjective skills are often more than fairly reflected in the statistics, apart from the odd exception. End of career every specialist batsman will have tons etc, but how effectively they pace their long and short innings is what will have a impact more often than not.

Statistics can only tell part of a story though.

Eoin Morgan scores the core of his runs in the batting powerplay overs and the latter part of the innings, hence a larger average/strike rate and the same applies with Jos Buttler. Also bearing in mind Joe Root has time on his side at 23 years old, whilst his reputation is based on red ball cricket.

A strike rate of 80% with many games played in English conditions is no mean feat. The England players don't have the luxury of batting on flat wickets under blue sky weather like other nations.

A provisional Lions squad will be named at lunch time, well two - one for 2 four day games and another for ODIs. Why not wait until later in the year when they can name the final squad?

Alviro Patterson wrote:

clubcricketeradi wrote:
I don't think Cook should be a automatic choice given his poor form even as a player. Having him as captain is making him impossible to drop and imo that position has saved him.

Regarding Joe who has played only in new rules and approach by top competitors, someone averaging 37 in ODI that SR is not at all good nowadays. Either he should be averaging more or having a better SR if his average stays at 37. Same with Cook. Trott gives 52 runs at SR of 77. Joe is consuming only 2 balls less but scoring a massive 15 runs less. Eoin Morgan is at avg 38 with SR 86. The problem is there is not much challenge to the ODI lineup with just 3 batters (Trott,Morgan,Jos) who maintain the average-SR ratio well. The more such ODI players who balance the runs and SR overall career, the better is it for the batting innings of a team. Over a long career subjective skills are often more than fairly reflected in the statistics, apart from the odd exception. End of career every specialist batsman will have tons etc, but how effectively they pace their long and short innings is what will have a impact more often than not.

Statistics can only tell part of a story though.

Eoin Morgan scores the core of his runs in the batting powerplay overs and the latter part of the innings, hence a larger average/strike rate and the same applies with Jos Buttler. Also bearing in mind Joe Root has time on his side at 23 years old, whilst his reputation is based on red ball cricket.

A strike rate of 80% with many games played in English conditions is no mean feat. The England players don't have the luxury of batting on flat wickets under blue sky weather like other nations.

Statistics won't lie over substantial number of matches. Let us wait and see whether Joe improves once he has reached 75+ ODI's if one feels 35 ODI's is negligible sample.

If it is tough to score runs against pacers in England due to swing then it is also tough to score runs against spinners in Asia with lot of turn and slow wickets. There are positives and negatives of every wicket in different conditions.

clubcricketeradi wrote:
Statistics won't lie over substantial number of matches. Let us wait and see whether Joe improves once he has reached 75+ ODI's if one feels 35 ODI's is negligible sample.

If it is tough to score runs against pacers in England due to swing then it is also tough to score runs against spinners in Asia with lot of turn and slow wickets. There are positives and negatives of every wicket in different conditions.

35 ODIs in the modern era is a small sample, effectively the equivalent of playing seven ODI series. 100 matches is a better sample, the equivalent of playing all test nations home and away in a 5 match ODI series.

Slipstream wrote:

clubcricketeradi wrote:

rich1uk wrote:I would like to see trott back , despite my concerns over whether he is the player he was

however if it means we end up with a top 4 of cook, bell, trott and root I would despair

might help cure my insomnia tho

imo Trott is England's best ODI player. When he is in form he plays longer innings than other England batters and his consistency is probably better than rest of their batters. Without his runs (bad form or absence due to stress) England will definitely struggle.

I agree he is England's best ODI player. So Cook, Hales, Trott in ODIs and maybe opening with Cook in Tests. He comes in early anyway when we lost Strauss or Cook.

One ODI combination?
Cook Hales Trott Stokes Root Morgan Buttler Broad Tredwell Finn Anderson

Why the hell do you want Cook in the ODI side?

shankycricket wrote:

Slipstream wrote:

clubcricketeradi wrote:

rich1uk wrote:I would like to see trott back , despite my concerns over whether he is the player he was

however if it means we end up with a top 4 of cook, bell, trott and root I would despair

might help cure my insomnia tho

imo Trott is England's best ODI player. When he is in form he plays longer innings than other England batters and his consistency is probably better than rest of their batters. Without his runs (bad form or absence due to stress) England will definitely struggle.

I agree he is England's best ODI player. So Cook, Hales, Trott in ODIs and maybe opening with Cook in Tests. He comes in early anyway when we lost Strauss or Cook.

One ODI combination?
Cook Hales Trott Stokes Root Morgan Buttler Broad Tredwell Finn Anderson

Why the hell do you want Cook in the ODI side?

He's the captain.

The quiet man has spoken - and not about KP:

http://www.givemesport.com/519194-ian-b ... mprovement

Exactly 100 days now to the World Cup.

I'm sure England are fully prepared.