Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

SaintPowelly wrote:I would probably pick Robson too, but apparently Moores is a Carbs fan, and he isn't in bad form this season.

Carbs scored 100* in a T20 and 150* in a List A game vs Lancs last season, so I think there is a fair chance he will be playing limited overs this summer.

It would seem a bit daft not to pick Robson given his recent form , since none of the last three openers tried have altogether convinced.
Not impossible though for Carberry - or even Compton ! - to make a claim for the vacant number three spot , surely ? I for one don't want Bell there ; and if there is no clear "classic number three" emerging at present , then a third opener type as a temporary measure might be the way to go. One would hope that one of Root , Ali , Ballance , Taylor (anyone else you care to name) would be looking good for the place in a year or so ; but in the meantime a little bit of extra defence high in the order could be the least-worst option...
Cook
Robson
Carberry/Compton etc
Bell
Root
Stokes/Woakes
Prior - or another wk
Broad
Finn/Jordan/Bresnan etc
Anderson
...and the eleventh spot going either to a batsman who bowls a bit of spin (bats at six , all down one) or a pure spinner of rabbit class with the bat...

The above isn't perhaps what I want to see , or expect to see...but you could argue for it without being certified , I think.

Still like to see early season form rewarded this time round : in times past England often seemed to wait until someone lost form , and only then selected him...

hopeforthebest wrote:I don't hold with the idea that we should see a host of young players coming into the team in large quantities, somehow we need players with a degree of gravitas along with youth.
Cook
Carberry
Compton
Moeen Ali (spinner as well)
Bell
Root (spinner as well)
Prior/Kieswetter
Jordan/Woakes/Stokes
Broad
Finn
Anderson.

Yes, far better to pick players who have been underwhelming in the past or recently dropped for poor performance.

Will Carberry be in contention? He had his (last) chance, and to be fair done ok, but the ashes will want to be forgotten.

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:I don't hold with the idea that we should see a host of young players coming into the team in large quantities, somehow we need players with a degree of gravitas along with youth.
Cook
Carberry
Compton
Moeen Ali (spinner as well)
Bell
Root (spinner as well)
Prior/Kieswetter
Jordan/Woakes/Stokes
Broad
Finn
Anderson.

Yes, far better to pick players who have been underwhelming in the past or recently dropped for poor performance.

In my opinion Carberry did OK in Oz he was one of the few players who stood up to the Johnson barrage. Three of his dimissals were in some repects unlucky. One when the ball spun back onto his wicket from a backfoot defensive stroke and two dismissals requied brilliant catches from legimate attacking strokes.

Compton is not the most attractive batsman but until his poor showing in two home games v NZ he looked solid. What caused his displays v NZ is an open question, maybe Flower gave him the idea that his place wasn't secure and put unreasonable pressure on him. For Somerset lats year, he scored a 1000 runs @ 50 average so showed he is a resilient character rather than the wimp Flower suggested he was.

hopeforthebest wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:I don't hold with the idea that we should see a host of young players coming into the team in large quantities, somehow we need players with a degree of gravitas along with youth.
Cook
Carberry
Compton
Moeen Ali (spinner as well)
Bell
Root (spinner as well)
Prior/Kieswetter
Jordan/Woakes/Stokes
Broad
Finn
Anderson.

Yes, far better to pick players who have been underwhelming in the past or recently dropped for poor performance.

In my opinion Carberry did OK in Oz he was one of the few players who stood up to the Johnson barrage. Three of his dimissals were in some repects unlucky. One when the ball spun back onto his wicket from a backfoot defensive stroke and two dismissals requied brilliant catches from legimate attacking strokes.

Compton is not the most attractive batsman but until his poor showing in two home games v NZ he looked solid. What caused his displays v NZ is an open question, maybe Flower gave him the idea that his place wasn't secure and put unreasonable pressure on him. For Somerset lats year, he scored a 1000 runs @ 50 average so showed he is a resilient character rather than the wimp Flower suggested he was.

While I didn't agree with Compton being dropped at the time and indeed commended Carbs for his application and willingness to occupy the crease, something that his more experianced team mates failed to do, I don't think either offer the future.

England have the opportunity to make a fresh start, make some bold selections and build looking two, three or four years down the line. We have a relatively soft summer, a coach who has throughout his career shown an ability to spot and develop talent and most importantly a removal of a management system that clearly wasn't working. We should take this and bring in the new generation.

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:I don't hold with the idea that we should see a host of young players coming into the team in large quantities, somehow we need players with a degree of gravitas along with youth.
Cook
Carberry
Compton
Moeen Ali (spinner as well)
Bell
Root (spinner as well)
Prior/Kieswetter
Jordan/Woakes/Stokes
Broad
Finn
Anderson.

Yes, far better to pick players who have been underwhelming in the past or recently dropped for poor performance.

In my opinion Carberry did OK in Oz he was one of the few players who stood up to the Johnson barrage. Three of his dimissals were in some repects unlucky. One when the ball spun back onto his wicket from a backfoot defensive stroke and two dismissals requied brilliant catches from legimate attacking strokes.

Compton is not the most attractive batsman but until his poor showing in two home games v NZ he looked solid. What caused his displays v NZ is an open question, maybe Flower gave him the idea that his place wasn't secure and put unreasonable pressure on him. For Somerset lats year, he scored a 1000 runs @ 50 average so showed he is a resilient character rather than the wimp Flower suggested he was.

While I didn't agree with Compton being dropped at the time and indeed commended Carbs for his application and willingness to occupy the crease, something that his more experianced team mates failed to do, I don't think either offer the future.

England have the opportunity to make a fresh start, make some bold selections and build looking two, three or four years down the line. We have a relatively soft summer, a coach who has throughout his career shown an ability to spot and develop talent and most importantly a removal of a management system that clearly wasn't working. We should take this and bring in the new generation.

Sorry Splinters but I don't go with the received wisdom that we accept risking losing tests now in order to reap the rewards 2-4 years from now, there may be no rewards. Young players are more likely to succeed as part of a winning team than a losing one. Australia brought in the 36 year old Rogers to bolster the team and was a vital player in their turn around.

hopeforthebest wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:I don't hold with the idea that we should see a host of young players coming into the team in large quantities, somehow we need players with a degree of gravitas along with youth.
Cook
Carberry
Compton
Moeen Ali (spinner as well)
Bell
Root (spinner as well)
Prior/Kieswetter
Jordan/Woakes/Stokes
Broad
Finn
Anderson.

Yes, far better to pick players who have been underwhelming in the past or recently dropped for poor performance.

In my opinion Carberry did OK in Oz he was one of the few players who stood up to the Johnson barrage. Three of his dimissals were in some repects unlucky. One when the ball spun back onto his wicket from a backfoot defensive stroke and two dismissals requied brilliant catches from legimate attacking strokes.

Compton is not the most attractive batsman but until his poor showing in two home games v NZ he looked solid. What caused his displays v NZ is an open question, maybe Flower gave him the idea that his place wasn't secure and put unreasonable pressure on him. For Somerset lats year, he scored a 1000 runs @ 50 average so showed he is a resilient character rather than the wimp Flower suggested he was.

While I didn't agree with Compton being dropped at the time and indeed commended Carbs for his application and willingness to occupy the crease, something that his more experianced team mates failed to do, I don't think either offer the future.

England have the opportunity to make a fresh start, make some bold selections and build looking two, three or four years down the line. We have a relatively soft summer, a coach who has throughout his career shown an ability to spot and develop talent and most importantly a removal of a management system that clearly wasn't working. We should take this and bring in the new generation.

Sorry Splinters but I don't go with the received wisdom that we accept risking losing tests now in order to reap the rewards 2-4 years from now, there may be no rewards. Young players are more likely to succeed as part of a winning team than a losing one. Australia brought in the 36 year old Rogers to bolster the team and was a vital player in their turn around.

If England had a player of the calibre of Chris Rogers lying around then I would support him coming in, however we don't.

Ballance is laying down a marker, 150*

SaintPowelly wrote:Ballance is laying down a marker, 150*

He hit 70 odd in his last innings as well.

I'd be suprised if Ballance isn't kept on for the summer.

I'm not sure, as a mature player, Rogers did provide any stability for younger players to work around- he took a while to establish himself and was a candidate for being dropped up until well into the away series. Maybe he was a god influence off the field. Arguably, the younger players allowed him time to bed in, on the pitch.

I'd keep Carberry. He showed some good qualities in Australia, and didn't really fail. Though I'm not sure he was unlucky- if you hit head high to the rope at long leg, there's a good chance of getting caught. It was a tough series and he deserves another chance. In fact, I'll be disappointed with the selectors if they drop him.

Picking a lot of new players is tempting. For the moment, I think we shouldn't just jettison continuity. If Robson is a must pick and a rare talent, he can bat at three.

There has a view in the last year that Root was too prematurely asked to open, it being a more difficult job and him being new to international cricket. As if, openers haven't come into an international side as openers since the dawn of time. In fact, Root was talked of as if he couldn't bat at three, which is usually the spot a new opener will go to if your current pair are undroppable. People were scathing of Flower/etc for this. I couldn't really understand where this came from. And notice that absolutely no one is suggesting that Robson bat at 5/6 for a couple of years.

Cook/Carberry/Root/Bell/Taylor/Stokes/Prior/Jordan/Broad/Anderson/Panesar.

Waitrose Lions:
Robson/Chopra/Moeen/Vince/Ballance/Woakes/Buttler/Borthwick/Finn/Kerrigan/Rankin.

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Cook/Carberry/Root/Bell/Taylor/Stokes/Prior/Jordan/Broad/Anderson/Panesar.

Waitrose Lions:
Robson/Chopra/Moeen/Vince/Ballance/Woakes/Buttler/Borthwick/Finn/Kerrigan/Rankin.

If you're keeping Carbs, why are you dropping Ballance?

I'm not taking the final two Tests as my last reference point. The team was in complete disarray by Melbourne, and sensible selection had been utterly lost. I'm not going to see Ballance as a continuity selection any more than I am Borthwick, Bairstow and Rankin. Taylor has made an irrefutable case for selection through the accepted channels. In Sydney, the England team had lost its mind.

I've not completely dropped (ie from below the Lions team) anyone who played at Sydney, apart from Bresnan, who has no real need of games for the Lions, and Bairstow. Maybe I should have Bairstow ahead of Buttler, for continuity's sake, or possibly a plausible keeper ahead of either.