Ben Stokes

[meninblue]

I think personally inthe last few years its quite clear that pitches have become more condusive to bowlers, but I think this idea that its "dustbowls" in Asia is so far wide of the mark, its untrue. The BD series was played on a pitch that turned, but it was hardly like it was raging bunsen territory. I have seen late 90's Sydney pitches that grip and ripped consistently more than Indian and BD pitches ive seen recently. Ive seen Asian pitches break up far more.

I think the main difference is there was a clear move in the last 3 odd years to produce more bowling friendly wickets. Test players who grew up in FC cricket pancake pitches arrive on them, and literally dont know what to do.

Even English pitches that swing in recent years havent been as noteworthy as some might expect. The TB test that Australia were destroyed in was just a pitch that did something. It was hardly a raging seamer with bounce all over the place. But growing up on flat pitches, no batsman had the technique to play it.

I contrast that to a pitch in the early 2000's at Headingley, when Ganguly/Dravid and Tendulkar must have scored 600 runs on a grassy, bouncy, seaming and swining fast bowler paradise. All there were very good technical players though, they could do well in those conditions. The modern day India team may have lasted 10 overs.

I am struggling to find any player in modern cricket who is technically as good as Rahul or Sachin. Saurav was not technically good, having severe weakness against short pitched stuff. His technique against short pitch bowling was below par.

[yuppie]

I think personally inthe last few years its quite clear that pitches have become more condusive to bowlers, but I think this idea that its "dustbowls" in Asia is so far wide of the mark, its untrue. The BD series was played on a pitch that turned, but it was hardly like it was raging bunsen territory. I have seen late 90's Sydney pitches that grip and ripped consistently more than Indian and BD pitches ive seen recently. Ive seen Asian pitches break up far more.

I think the main difference is there was a clear move in the last 3 odd years to produce more bowling friendly wickets. Test players who grew up in FC cricket pancake pitches arrive on them, and literally dont know what to do.

Even English pitches that swing in recent years havent been as noteworthy as some might expect. The TB test that Australia were destroyed in was just a pitch that did something. It was hardly a raging seamer with bounce all over the place. But growing up on flat pitches, no batsman had the technique to play it.

I contrast that to a pitch in the early 2000's at Headingley, when Ganguly/Dravid and Tendulkar must have scored 600 runs on a grassy, bouncy, seaming and swining fast bowler paradise. All there were very good technical players though, they could do well in those conditions. The modern day India team may have lasted 10 overs.

I am struggling to find any player in modern cricket who is technically as good as Rahul or Sachin. Saurav was not technically good, having severe weakness against short pitched stuff. His technique against short pitch bowling was below par.

I do remember Saurav making a good 100 in Brisbane in the early 2000's. His temperament against the short ball was talked about a lot before that innings. Though i don't think there were any bowlers in team renowned for their short pitch bowling.


Any way, this Ben Stokes fella. Vaughan says England need to be careful not to burn him out. Would agree with that, his work load could be huge in India.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Funny. I remember that Leeds pitch as a road, and the very hot weather, and blue sky, allowing for no swing. Maybe the pitch was tough, and I misremember, but there definitely wasn't any help overhead.

[sussexpob]

Funny. I remember that Leeds pitch as a road, and the very hot weather, and blue sky, allowing for no swing. Maybe the pitch was tough, and I misremember, but there definitely wasn't any help overhead.

The match report from wisden....

England can usually rely on Headingley for home comforts. So it was a nasty shock that this year the old girl turned against them, embracing instead India - out-of-form, contract-disputing India. It was they who were invited to Geoffrey Boycott's pre-match curry buffet and it was they who breathed in the dank Leeds air, looked up at the furious age-old leaden skies, mastered the demons in the pitch, and served up a win by an innings

India batted with great discipline throughout the first day of the third npower Test at Headingley, accepting the challenge presented to them by their captain, Sourav Ganguly. It was a brave decision to bat first on an overcast morning and on a pitch with a tinge of green to encourage the seam bowlers, but it was only Virender Sehwag who succumbed in a tense, hard-fought morning session. Rahul Dravid's century and Sanjay Bangar's contribution meant that India were in the guinea seats at stumps.

In such conditions there was the traditional movement for the bowlers, leaving Sehwag and Bangar to perhaps question the wisdom of batting first.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Fair enough. Headingley was a decent batting pitch around that time, and a lot of runs were scored in the late nineties and noughties, so that stuff in the article about Headingley pitches was out of date by 2002. Maybe the heatwave was the next year when Gary Kirsten batted for eight hours for 130 and Monde Zondeki three hours for a fifty.

[sussexpob]

Fair enough. Headingley was a decent batting pitch around that time, and a lot of runs were scored in the late nineties and noughties, so that stuff in the article about Headingley pitches was out of date by 2002. Maybe the heatwave was the next year when Gary Kirsten batted for eight hours for 130 and Monde Zondeki three hours for a fifty.

The 2003 pitch by memory was dry, being they picked Kirtley and Anderson together on the basis that the only weapon the pitch would have would be reverse. But IIRC, England bowled way too full looking for non existant swing and lost the match

[Dr Cricket]

Would agree with many of the points mentioned here if we only talking about Ashwin bowling but considering we talking about Ashwin all round package surely him being a top bowler and someone capable of scoring hundreds make him a very good all rounder and at the moment easily the best all rounder in the world.
Hard for stokes to compare with that considering bangladesh series was the first one where he was the main bowling option for england before that he was at best 4th seam option and he was hardly batting well consistently either did average 22 at one point.

[meninblue]

Few more fabulous performances from Ben in two tests he has played in this IND-ENG test series.

[Dr Cricket]

Suspect in years to come ashwin vs stokes would be a khan vs botham all round battle especially with India vs England to play 5 test series every 2 years.
Wonder if both players will keep an eye on other person all round performance like the quartet did in the 80s.
You don't often get 2 quality all rounder at the same time.

[meninblue]

Suspect in years to come ashwin vs stokes would be a khan vs botham all round battle especially with India vs England to play 5 test series every 2 years.
Wonder if both players will keep an eye on other person all round performance like the quartet did in the 80s.
You don't often get 2 quality all rounder at the same time.

Shakib is also there who can score tons as well as pick 5 fers.

[Dr Cricket]

Well he not exactly going to play many test and not sure Shakib the same player anymore looks like he suited his game for t20 and odi.
Sussex or the other better technical analyst can comment on it but don't think he capable of scoring big runs or create problems with the ball now especially in test when people can sit on players and wait for the bad balls.

[meninblue]

Is there any better fielder than Ben Stokes in this team. The catch taken today of Virat standing in slips with so lesa reaction time and fully diving was sensational.

[Making_Splinters]

There is no competition between Ashwin and Stokes in the all rounder department. Ashwin is significantly better.

[Durhamfootman]

Stokes does take some stunning catches. Not quite Colly-esque, but closer than most will get

[sussexpob]

Sussex or the other better technical analyst can comment on it but don't think he capable of scoring big runs or create problems with the ball now especially in test when people can sit on players and wait for the bad balls.

At home, he will be a player you have to be wary of, but I think Shakib is a player that has struggled to improve with the ball in recent years. I think its incredibly tough to be a spinning all rounder as really mastering the craft means you have to work on variations and be dedicated. One cant do that as a three format cricketing allrounder nowadays.

As a batsman, I would fancy him outside Asia to not make much of an impact. His footwork only really appears to spin, and even then he at times is leadfooten. He moves the front foot very little, and to short balls or those that are aimed at the bodyline he either plays aggressively and has little control, or he tries to lean on the ball with the bat in front of the pad. Its a technique that has little room for error.

Id be setting the "Philip Hughes" field and asking a pace bowler to bring it into him and aim at the body.