Ben Stokes

[meninblue]

Who is better amongst Ben and Woakes. Or they both are equally good.

[sussexpob]

Who is better amongst Ben and Woakes. Or they both are equally good.

I personally favour Woakes, but he wont get the chance up the order he needs to show his batting ability.

[Gingerfinch]

Woakes the better bowler and Stokes the better batsman is the obvious answer.

[sussexpob]

Woakes the better bowler and Stokes the better batsman is the obvious answer.

Is that obivious? Woakes has a better first class and test average.

[Gingerfinch]

Woakes the better bowler and Stokes the better batsman is the obvious answer.

Is that obivious? Woakes has a better first class and test average.

A few not outs in very few innings. If he was deemed better, he'd be in higher. Woakes is a decent lower order bat but Stokes is a good number 6, in my humble and unbiased opinion.

[meninblue]

Woakes the better bowler and Stokes the better batsman is the obvious answer.

I value day 4 and 5 hundres a lot for many reasons. Ben has scores one in Perth iirc on a wicket with a lengthy crack. I think that and his quick 100 against someone were outstanding. Even the 85 which won England the first test versus Bangladesh.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Could add fielding.

Obviously Ashwin though.

Stokes was England's highest run scorer and leading wicket taker. He had the best bowling average on either side. This was a series in which I wasn't really expecting him to thrive, and he didn't with the bat (though he played a big part in the win). He's having a very good year. He doesn't get a lot of criticism as a top six bat because he's doing ok (aside from one massive innings) and many others are doing very badly.

He's attracting more attention for his attitude (he seems to arouse a a surprising amount of antagonism, and piss taking among other players). This is something the England managers have shown no inclination to criticise, so that's not going to change in the near future.

[Gingerfinch]

Fiery redheads hey!

I wouldn't mind him being that, but he does or has moaned when he's taken some stick.

[meninblue]

He has proved that he has ability to play match winning knocks and bowl match winning spells. Such a player gives lot of flexibiliity to the captain as well as selectors.

[Dr Cricket]

Is Ben the best allrounder right now ?

Not even close considering Ashwin is what 20 times a better bowler, lets be honest ashwin get in the team as a bowler, stoke doesn't yet, although he close to being one now in Asia for england.
batting wise both are equal.
Ashwin very underrated as an all rounder, not really sure why considering he had the attributes ages ago for it but people just didn't see him as an all rounder.
only really took Dhoni/indian media to call him that 6-7 months.

batting average of 33 with 4 hundreds and 6 fifties and bowling average of 24.29 says it all.
Ben Stokes average of 33 with 3 hundreds and 7 fifties and bowling average of 33.

Although they are both top quality all rounder suspect in 10 yrs time people will be having the same arguments that botham fans and imran khan fans had when discussing the better all rounder.
Think Ashwin get the title for being more consistent and being a better bowler.

[Alviro Patterson]

But the question is, can Ravi Ashwin do it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?

Or a cool and overcast spring in Northern England?

[alfie]

But the question is, can Ravi Ashwin do it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?

Or a cool and overcast spring in Northern England?

Exactly. Ashwin is a very good cricketer. But up to now , his bowling success is limited to home conditions (and some very similar pitches in West Indies.)
In fairness , he hasn't played much in England ...but his bowling in half a dozen Tests in Australia was pretty ineffective. Not a big enough sample : but partly for that reason I am not going to canonize him just yet...

As for Stokes : two Tests in conditions not expected to suit him have surely advanced his credentials to anyone not blinkered by prejudice . Not hailing him as a superstar yet either ; but he is clearly improving.
Ginger is spot on re his temperament . I don't mind a fast bowler having a few words , but he has to be able to cop it in return without complaining. Jimmy , for example , while a serial aggressor , didn't complain about some less than friendly return treatment from the Australians ; that is as it should be . Dish it out , take it in return. Let your game speak for you. Hopefully Stokes will learn this - it will make him a better player.

[sussexpob]

But the question is, can Ravi Ashwin do it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?

Or a cool and overcast spring in Northern England?

Stokes averages not much over 25 with the bat in England, and just under 40 with the ball....... so it would seem Ben might also struggle in Stoke on a Tuesday night.

[sussexpob]

I guess the irony of some of the comments above is that all of Stokes performances are taken with no further analysis, but Ashwin's career can be picked apart and suggested he doesnt perform in certain areas. Lets make an assessment of Stokes contributions in the same light...

His bowling average only dropped to an acceptable level after a series where in one test he cleared up the worst tailend in the cricketing world, and in another test he took a a couple of top order players with no career records and a few tailenders. Bangaldesh has never really been the mark of batting quality, I doubt ripping up this line up really proves anything.

He has 2 x 5 for, both against Australia. One was a dead rubber match with the series long over, the other came in a second innings with Australia having been bowled out for a historically low total in the first innings, and 350 odd behind England to make them bat again. These are hardly performances that stand out as indicative of a guy who steps up at critical moments.

With the bat he has 3 x 100's. His highest total came in a game where both teams scored 650-700 in the first innings declared for 5/6 wickets. The game ended on the fifth day with probably by memory not much over a wicket per session falling. His first century was hit with Australia already considering the game all but ended, and with field placings encouraged to quite happily see a batsman play shots rather than Faf du Plessis it. In the grand scheme of things it was utterly meaningless. The pitch had slowed a lot and batting got easier as it went on. And the Lords 2015 pitch gave up 14 scores of 50 plus, it was slow and typical of a Lords pitch we have seen where a decent batting team pile up 500-600.... NZ did score over 500 in the first innings.

Have we seen Stokes really do anything in tough conditions? Score 100's in live games where the game is on the line? Take top order wickets with series and games on the line?

Ashwin not got the best record vs England, but did Stokes register 4 ducks in the only two tests he played vs India

[hopeforthebest]

I have the idea that Cook still sees Woakes as a fill in until Anderson and Wood return. All those years of being in the squad but not picked to play is how Cook views him, a second reserve. Whereas Stokes is his Liefling, his darling boy who can do no wrong. So long as Cook remains captain Woakes will always be at a disadvantage, the selection of Finn shows that Cook has his favourites, for surely Ball should have played.

Of the two though I believe Stokes has the talent to be great although whether he has the character to do so is an open question. Woakes given a fair shake will be a valued team member for a long time and has enough talent to surpass Stokes if the latter doesn't apply himself often enough.