Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:A few weeks ago he scored a century at Edgbaston in An RLC game, his first on his home ground since his problem began. On reaching his century his face screwed up with emotion in a way I've never seen from him before which to me suggested he was not fully over all that's happened. I think he needs more time and the suitable time to consider his return to England colours would be in the late May ODI games v NZ next year. By that time he will have played 4-5 CC games to prove his good form has continued.
Of course this presupposes that we fail to win the WC.

By May he'll be 34. No point bringing him back for what are ultimately meaningless ODIs.

I suggest that if he's a success in the ODI games and showing form in the CC games there's no reason why he couldn't play in the ashes later next year. If he's young enough to play in the WC in Feb-March, he's hardly going to be too old 2 months later.

hopeforthebest wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:A few weeks ago he scored a century at Edgbaston in An RLC game, his first on his home ground since his problem began. On reaching his century his face screwed up with emotion in a way I've never seen from him before which to me suggested he was not fully over all that's happened. I think he needs more time and the suitable time to consider his return to England colours would be in the late May ODI games v NZ next year. By that time he will have played 4-5 CC games to prove his good form has continued.
Of course this presupposes that we fail to win the WC.

By May he'll be 34. No point bringing him back for what are ultimately meaningless ODIs.

I suggest that if he's a success in the ODI games and showing form in the CC games there's no reason why he couldn't play in the ashes later next year. If he's young enough to play in the WC in Feb-March, he's hardly going to be too old 2 months later.

If, or should that be when, England do badly at the World Cup, then the summer should be time to ring the changes and start rebuilding the ODI side. The only way I could see Trott fitting into that process would be if Cook and Bell step down and Trott could be the experianced player in the side.

What is of more value, a player coming towards the end of their career, or getting someone like Taylor into the side with a view of moving forward?

As for the Test team, I can't see Trott coming back, not to say he couldn't do the job if needed.

Making_Splinters wrote:

What is of more value, a player coming towards the end of their career, or getting someone like Taylor into the side with a view of moving forward?

depends on whether your job is on the line in the meantime.

we are fortunate in that we can afford to look to the future, whereas the decision makers are looking to protect their incomes now. If they think heads will roll if we continue to lose series, they'll do whatever is expedient, and stick two fingers up at the medium to long term view while doing it

I see Taylor and Root competing for a place. England should probably have one of Trott, Bell and Cook. Trott is preferable out of these, but if he represents a risk, then Bell. I reckon there's about three years between these players?

Outside of rest and rotation, pick your bast side.

Durhamfootman wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:

What is of more value, a player coming towards the end of their career, or getting someone like Taylor into the side with a view of moving forward?

depends on whether your job is on the line in the meantime.

we are fortunate in that we can afford to look to the future, whereas the decision makers are looking to protect their incomes now. If they think heads will roll if we continue to lose series, they'll do whatever is expedient, and stick two fingers up at the medium to long term view while doing it

A bad World Cup would allow for those "tough" decisions to be made in a face saving manner. At present England are very much team Cook, but that's clearly not working for the ODI side. It would be easy to gently push Cook and Bell should things go badly in Australia.

agreed

I've often heard the expression 'if he's good enough, he old enough' used about young talent, is not also true that 'if he's good enough he's young enough' equally valid.

yes

hopeforthebest wrote:I've often heard the expression 'if he's good enough, he old enough' used about young talent, is not also true that 'if he's good enough he's young enough' equally valid.

Again, we are talking about mental health...I'd be shocked if the ECB risk his by playing him.

hopeforthebest wrote:I've often heard the expression 'if he's good enough, he old enough' used about young talent, is not also true that 'if he's good enough he's young enough' equally valid.

I would pick Trott, if fit, to go to the World Cup because we badly need a top class batsman in the side. I would not pick him after the World Cup if he doesn't go to Australia simply because there are a lot of young players who could play for England well into the future.

I m seriously hacked off with this pigeon holing of Trott and 'mental health' as if it were a disease which can't be overcome.

England risk players all the time with long term injuries and don't bat an eyelid - Trott has been signed off as fit.

If Trott were to put on an England shirt again and be successful I'd be overjoyed and it would be a massive kick up the backside to all those who treat mental health as different from any other illness.

KipperJohn wrote:I m seriously hacked off with this pigeon holing of Trott and 'mental health' as if it were a disease which can't be overcome.

England risk players all the time with long term injuries and don't bat an eyelid - Trott has been signed off as fit.

If Trott were to put on an England shirt again and be successful I'd be overjoyed and it would be a massive kick up the backside to all those who treat mental health as different from any other illness.

i'm one of the people who have expressed concern about putting him back into the very environment that led to his initial breakdown for the very reason I know quite a lot about the subject , I do voluntary work for a local mental health trust and have spent a lot of time studying psychology and specifically stress related illnesses after a very close friend of mine committed suicide a few years ago

of course stress related illnesses can be overcome , what worries me is three-fold ;

1 - he seemed in denial about what his problems were at the start of the year

2 - its just 5 months ago that he had a relapse of sorts just trying to return to county cricket

3 - the added stress of playing in the international arena compared to domestic cricket is what apparently brought on the problems in the first place and you cant replicate that sort of environment so until he is in that situation again you really don't know how he will cope with it

now obviously I don't know the exact details of his case but it isn't that common for someone who operated in a high pressure area which led to a stress-related illness to ever be able to return to that same environment and operate at his previous level let alone after a fairly short period

Is Trott more likely to play tests than ODI's. given there is no real long term plan like there might be in ODI's, after the world cup? We need an opener.

Perhaps a way for the ECB to find out about Trott would be to include him in the Lions squad to SA and for Trott to see if the international scene is really what he wishes to return to. I'm not sure when this tour takes place exactly but it may be before the final 15 for the WC have to be officially ratified. It could be of course that the selectors take the same view as some posters on here that he represents the past rather than that 'brave new world they are seeking.

rich1uk wrote:

KipperJohn wrote:I m seriously hacked off with this pigeon holing of Trott and 'mental health' as if it were a disease which can't be overcome.

England risk players all the time with long term injuries and don't bat an eyelid - Trott has been signed off as fit.

If Trott were to put on an England shirt again and be successful I'd be overjoyed and it would be a massive kick up the backside to all those who treat mental health as different from any other illness.

i'm one of the people who have expressed concern about putting him back into the very environment that led to his initial breakdown for the very reason I know quite a lot about the subject , I do voluntary work for a local mental health trust and have spent a lot of time studying psychology and specifically stress related illnesses after a very close friend of mine committed suicide a few years ago

of course stress related illnesses can be overcome , what worries me is three-fold ;

1 - he seemed in denial about what his problems were at the start of the year

2 - its just 5 months ago that he had a relapse of sorts just trying to return to county cricket

3 - the added stress of playing in the international arena compared to domestic cricket is what apparently brought on the problems in the first place and you cant replicate that sort of environment so until he is in that situation again you really don't know how he will cope with it

now obviously I don't know the exact details of his case but it isn't that common for someone who operated in a high pressure area which led to a stress-related illness to ever be able to return to that same environment and operate at his previous level let alone after a fairly short period

I've no desire to cross swords rich over this - your views are respected by me. I speak from a patient's point of view - stress, anxiety etc all operate at different levels for every individual. I'm not saying Trott can overcome his difficulties, but if he's declared fit and Is in form he should be given the chance -just like anyone else who has suffered illness or injury.

I distinctly remember all the old stuff about Bell being 'mentally weak' - it was disgraceful nonsense and has proved to be so. That's not a comparison with Trott who obviously has a specific problem - it justs highlights the ignorance of people who bandy such terms around.