There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Doesn't he have an achilles heel that was widely commented on? That is, playing a long way back into his crease, and not getting forward from that position. Quite a few modern players are like this (Root) and it makes them especially vulnerable to quick swing bowlers. If he does ok against SA and Australia in the next year, then obviously, we'll know more. Any domestic player really has to prove they can play pace on stepping up as there will be little of it at county level.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:31 am

clubcricketeradi wrote:Gary Ballance batting was impressive to me. He may not be the next Trott batting at 3 but has some similar charactersitics like keepign the ball down even after having scored decent number of runs for a test innings. He values his wicket and temperamentally good at shot selection for this format. Also, no major technical blunder that can be spotted like in case of some other batters. Will look how he bats on spin friendly wickets. At least England selectors have found a No 3 with the right approach to bat at that position.


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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Slipstream » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:31 am

How England did this summer

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Moeen the surprise of the summer. I wonder if Swann would have done as well, not many Indian left-handers.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby shankycricket » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:36 am

Slipstream wrote:How England did this summer

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Moeen the surprise of the summer. I wonder if Swann would have done as well, not many Indian left-handers.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:48 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Doesn't he have an achilles heel that was widely commented on? That is, playing a long way back into his crease, and not getting forward from that position. Quite a few modern players are like this (Root) and it makes them especially vulnerable to quick swing bowlers. If he does ok against SA and Australia in the next year, then obviously, we'll know more. Any domestic player really has to prove they can play pace on stepping up as there will be little of it at county level.


Would look into his technique in details whenever i get to watch his innings.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby rich1uk » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:25 am

for me what has impressed me about ballance has been his patience and discipline

he seems to have a very good handle on what he wants to play , what he wants to leave and sticks to that

knowing what your limitations are , and playing within them is very important for a test batsman imo , as much as anything technical
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:09 am

David Willey is off the field injured again. He's missed a lot of games through injury this year which won't enhance his international chances.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby andy » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:50 pm

to be fair to the lad, he had a stress fracture of the back, you don't recover from them quickly, and they always carry a risk of returning..
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:39 pm

There are a good crop of youngster out and about in county cricket, all we need is the ECB to grow a pair and make those "tough choices" they keep talking about.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:18 am

I am very keen to see how the selection of Moeen as replacement to Swann/Monty going to work over next 2-3 years. Will England have to switch to a specialist bowler then ?So far he did a very good job considering he is not a specialist test bowler. Personally i think he has been given a very tough task without having any guidance of specialist bowler in the same playing 11 considering that he never got to bowl with Swann/Monty at other end.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:30 am

His mentorship by Ajmal may end now.

He seems to have got some success by bowling quicker, but that may not always be the best way to bowl. Normally, succeeding against India by bowling spin would seem confirmation of your skill, but India's batting was so bad, it would be nice to see further proof. He looked an ordinary bowler against SL. Has he improved, or were they just better?

I guess we need to see him over a year, particularly in UAE. But good signs so far. Even if he just proves a decent second spinner, that would be useful in Asia.

He needs to prove himself a top six bat.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:23 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:His mentorship by Ajmal may end now.

He seems to have got some success by bowling quicker, but that may not always be the best way to bowl. Normally, succeeding against India by bowling spin would seem confirmation of your skill, but India's batting was so bad, it would be nice to see further proof. He looked an ordinary bowler against SL. Has he improved, or were they just better?

I guess we need to see him over a year, particularly in UAE. But good signs so far. Even if he just proves a decent second spinner, that would be useful in Asia.

He needs to prove himself a top six bat.


My personal observation was that our new generation players will do much better in ODI than in tests. They are not as good temperamentally/shot selection which makes a lot of difference in tests. They will smash the same spinners in ODI and T20 who have caused them lot of trouble in test format. Moeen may have bowled better, but i do believe that still our new look specialist batters have to show much more application even against spin in test format. Principally having a non specialist to do role of specialist bowler is taking a chance and to me it comes across that England selectors are playing a luck game at times. More often than not strategies based on poor fundamentals will not work.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:50 pm

It will indeed be interesting to see how Moeen gets on as his career develops.

Initially I believe he was selected primarily as a batsman , with his ability to bowl spin seen as a useful add on - and perhaps thought to be all that would be needed in English conditions against Sri Lankan and Indian batsmen as the bulk of the work would be done by the seamers. Rather doubt it was intended he would assume the role of main spinner ; more likely it was the plan to introduce Kerrigan or some other later in the summer...but since early results were not what was expected and team balance issues demanded a batting spinner the experiment continued. Then of course England's revival coincided with Moeen's conversion into a bowler who can bat...
In truth the sample isn't big enough yet. But they're hardly going to ditch him on that form , so the only way we are going to get a look at another spin prospect is if they play two together - which may not be out of the question in West Indies next year. Not going to be lot of time to recast the attack before the Australians come calling though.
It may also happen that he moves down the batting order a little : Buttler has made a fair start ; and Stokes and Woakes are in the mix as pace bowling choices. Could we see Moeen as low as eight next summer ? Obviously better if he makes serious runs and settles his position for batting alone , as it takes some pressure off his bowling. But I am reluctant to make any firm predictions about the England lineup at present : too many new players who have shown promise without yet having had time to demonstrate consistency. Interesting times , I think they call it.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:56 pm

Good summation Alfie.

With Stokes, Woakes, Buttler and Moeen about, two of those may be batting too low in the order to give them a fair chance. But it'll settle down in time, as we see who makes the most of their chance. Someone might have to make a case from as low even as nine. And then Broad at ten.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:14 pm

I think Moeen will have to perform with the bat to hold down a place, his wickets primarily came from batsman error this summer rather than bowling anything special.

We'll know a lot more once the Australians have come, can't see Robson opening by then.
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