India the Test Future?

[Arthur Crabtree]

The cricinfo headline about Indian cricket, 'All Tunnel and No Light' is just ridiculous. Even if India is going through a natural lull, they still have a huge infrastructure in place. It's not like WI or SL who had a golden scoop of talent. I'm sure Indian cricket could make more of the talent they have. Maybe they don't have to get all of it out there. What appears to be more distressing is the allegation of bad practice among administrators. But if someone told me there isn't a good team in India, I wouldn't believe it.

[andy]

The cricinfo headline about Indian cricket, 'All Tunnel and No Light' is just ridiculous. Even if India is going through a natural lull, they still have a huge infrastructure in place. It's not like WI or SL who had a golden scoop of talent. I'm sure Indian cricket could make more of the talent they have. Maybe they don't have to get all of it out there. What appears to be more distressing is the allegation of bad practice among administrators. But if someone told me there isn't a good team in India, I wouldn't believe it.

[Making_Splinters]

India have the biggest potential talent pool in all of cricket, a quick glance at the first class records show there is no real need to worry about a serious gap in talent between the retiring masters and the new generation. I think India do need to stop focusing so much on trying to nail down their pace unit, they did very well on a diet of spin and it is Kumble who they are missing most at present.

[andy]

Ojha seems to go un-noticed..

if you look at his test record its mightily impressive, he keeps things ultra tight and picks up bags of wickets....in the future, they could have Ashwin 7, then Ojha stays in the side, they can fit 3 quicks, and also ash and ojha..

[shankycricket]

Don't see why India need an allrounder at home, where you play 2 spinners. The 2 spinners will do majority of the bowling anyway. Its away from home when India play 3 seamers and 1 spinner that a 5th bowler i.e. a 4th seamer might be required to share the workload as the spinner won't get much assistance in the 1st innings and the 3 seamers might get overbowled.
I think India could look at Bhuvneshwar and Irfan as the seam bowling allrounders abroad. At home, just pick a specialist batsman at 6 and go in with 4 frontline bowlers, 2 seamers and 2 spinners.

yep - would have to agree

Bhuvneshwar and Irfan are the two all-round options, I'd be tempted to play them both - a fit Varun Aaron and Umesh Yadav would probably be the other two seamers for me - with Ishant in the frame depending on his form. Dinda doesn't look too bad but it is early days

Varun Aaron hasn't played a Ranji match this season and barely played 1 first class match last year, in which he didn't pick up a wicket. In 11 FC games, he has a FC average of 42. I am struggling to understand the hype. Just because he bowls quick? Well, he does nothing with the ball in hand. There are at least 10 better options in India, at present.

[Red Devil]

Don't see why India need an allrounder at home, where you play 2 spinners. The 2 spinners will do majority of the bowling anyway. Its away from home when India play 3 seamers and 1 spinner that a 5th bowler i.e. a 4th seamer might be required to share the workload as the spinner won't get much assistance in the 1st innings and the 3 seamers might get overbowled.
I think India could look at Bhuvneshwar and Irfan as the seam bowling allrounders abroad. At home, just pick a specialist batsman at 6 and go in with 4 frontline bowlers, 2 seamers and 2 spinners.

yep - would have to agree

Bhuvneshwar and Irfan are the two all-round options, I'd be tempted to play them both - a fit Varun Aaron and Umesh Yadav would probably be the other two seamers for me - with Ishant in the frame depending on his form. Dinda doesn't look too bad but it is early days

Varun Aaron hasn't played a Ranji match this season and barely played 1 first class match last year, in which he didn't pick up a wicket. In 11 FC games, he has a FC average of 42. I am struggling to understand the hype. Just because he bowls quick? Well, he does nothing with the ball in hand. There are at least 10 better options in India, at present.

yep - because he is quick ... but I take the point that he is maybe not ready yet, in which case stick with Ish. What do you think of Basant Mohanty - his Fc record is excellent.

[shankycricket]

Don't see why India need an allrounder at home, where you play 2 spinners. The 2 spinners will do majority of the bowling anyway. Its away from home when India play 3 seamers and 1 spinner that a 5th bowler i.e. a 4th seamer might be required to share the workload as the spinner won't get much assistance in the 1st innings and the 3 seamers might get overbowled.
I think India could look at Bhuvneshwar and Irfan as the seam bowling allrounders abroad. At home, just pick a specialist batsman at 6 and go in with 4 frontline bowlers, 2 seamers and 2 spinners.

yep - would have to agree

Bhuvneshwar and Irfan are the two all-round options, I'd be tempted to play them both - a fit Varun Aaron and Umesh Yadav would probably be the other two seamers for me - with Ishant in the frame depending on his form. Dinda doesn't look too bad but it is early days

Varun Aaron hasn't played a Ranji match this season and barely played 1 first class match last year, in which he didn't pick up a wicket. In 11 FC games, he has a FC average of 42. I am struggling to understand the hype. Just because he bowls quick? Well, he does nothing with the ball in hand. There are at least 10 better options in India, at present.

yep - because he is quick ... but I take the point that he is maybe not ready yet, in which case stick with Ish. What do you think of Basant Mohanty - his Fc record is excellent.

Haven't seen him yet. I like the look of Shami Ahmed though. 2 good Ranji seasons in a row but more importantly, had good "A" tours too to WI and NZ, which suggests that he can do well at a higher level. He's quick and Wasim Akram rates him highly having worked with him with KKR for 2 seasons in a row.

Ian Pont, one of the highly rated bowling coaches has worked with the Haryana Ranji team (I think) and was tweeting the other day about a chap called Manmeet Sharma. He feels he is ready for Test cricket. He's the 4 highest wicket taker in Ranji this season.

One of last year's under 19 WC stars Sandeep Sharma seems to have had a bit of a stormer in his first Ranji season (second highest wicket taker this year) and bowls at a decent pace. Ideally, needs another season of FC cricket but there's enough seam bowling talent in India at the moment IMO.

For the Aus series, I'd start give Ishant a couple of Tests to see if he can start taking wickets at this level again. With the likes of Dinda, Awana, Shami Ahmed and Pankaj Singh waiting in the wings. Yadav 1st choice of course.

I'd be more concerned about the spinners. There seems to be very little behind Ashwin and Ojha. That Piyush Chawla got in the Test squad says it all. The brightest spin bowling talent, Harmeet Singh, doesn't even get an oppurtunity for his Ranji side, Mumbai. I think Nadeem deserves a chance. Should be in the Test squad as the back up spinner IMO.

[shankycricket]

Don't see why India need an allrounder at home, where you play 2 spinners. The 2 spinners will do majority of the bowling anyway. Its away from home when India play 3 seamers and 1 spinner that a 5th bowler i.e. a 4th seamer might be required to share the workload as the spinner won't get much assistance in the 1st innings and the 3 seamers might get overbowled.
I think India could look at Bhuvneshwar and Irfan as the seam bowling allrounders abroad. At home, just pick a specialist batsman at 6 and go in with 4 frontline bowlers, 2 seamers and 2 spinners.

yep - would have to agree

Bhuvneshwar and Irfan are the two all-round options, I'd be tempted to play them both - a fit Varun Aaron and Umesh Yadav would probably be the other two seamers for me - with Ishant in the frame depending on his form. Dinda doesn't look too bad but it is early days

Varun Aaron hasn't played a Ranji match this season and barely played 1 first class match last year, in which he didn't pick up a wicket. In 11 FC games, he has a FC average of 42. I am struggling to understand the hype. Just because he bowls quick? Well, he does nothing with the ball in hand. There are at least 10 better options in India, at present.

yep - because he is quick ... but I take the point that he is maybe not ready yet, in which case stick with Ish. What do you think of Basant Mohanty - his Fc record is excellent.

The problem with him though is that he doesn't seem like an athlete. Doubt he'll be able to sustain the pace with that sort of run-up and action. Needs to play a lot more FC cricket. His fitness, at present, just isn't good enough, for a fast bowler.

[andy]

is that in your professional opinon shanks?

[shankycricket]

I think his record is reason enough for him not to be playing for India at present, CF. Don't need my opinion. I know you love him although not sure why as I don't know when you have seen him bowling apart from the IPL, which hardly counts when it comes to Test selection.

[sussexpob]

Yadav is certainly the long term replacement for Zaheer, but to be fair India need to realise that the pitches they produce are death zones for young fast bowlers. None of the names mentioned above will achieve anything until they play regularily in an environment thta allows them to maintain form on a regular basis, or to build form after patches of bad play.... at the moment I fear too many Indian bowlers get to a 4 day game on bad form and have to face expected high scoring on pitches not produced for result cricket.

They also need to be better in their selection policies because a few Indian bowlers have looked ok in recent years but they have a few bad tests on dead, unhelpful tracks, and then they get throw back on dead pitches to prove themselves and work their way into form. Statistical analysis of Indian pace bowlers is pointless, if they average 38 on tracks that produce scores of 500 on a regular basis then they are probably doing a manageable job.... I mean 38 in India probably equates to much lower for bowlers in England simply due to the par score.

Someone like Pathan for instance playing only 25 odd test matches is an absolute failure in selection, he bowled brilliantly on a few bowling graveyard tracks, especially test 1 in Pakistan(Multan I think) in 2004, and although he had injuries recently, he never really cemented a first team place over about a decade since his debut anyway... a player averaging in the low 30's in both disciplines would arguably find a way as an automatic pick in most teams in the history of the game, except for India who struggle for pace bowlers? Bizarre!

Sreesanth I rate also, but again just like Munaf/RP Singh etc they show glimpses of good bowling, but are constantly getting dead pitches to prove themselves on, and no bowler in the history of the game can repeat success in those conditions. Sreesanth for instance blew Sri Lanka away in a test in 09-10, yet over the series this was forgotten as the pitches started to produce 700- declared and 600- declared games, and his stats at the end were as ragged as any other bowler in the series. RP Singh bowled England out in one test in the late 00's with good probing swing bowling, got dropped after dead pitch matches and then was thrown back to the lions vs South Africa. Munaf's career never recovered from the Pakistan tour in the late 00's again when he played on some unhelpful pitches, by memory India opened one innnigs with two spinners!!

The most indicative result is Sharma. He has adapted to dead pitches by losing his edge completely, he no longer bowls aggressive lines and simply goes through the motions... he bowls long spells and sets himself up for long innings, not for strike bowling, and its this defensive nature that is a result of playing on too many non result wickets. As a youngster he had nip and late swing and bowled full and aggressive, he has morphed into a very average player.

At times when he seems to throw caution to the wind he still looks a capable test bowler, the 5 for in England for instance where he just bowled naturally at a time England had de facto already won was refreshing to see. Id like to see him operate with a bit more wanto aggression and be told to forget stats and how expensive he is.

[greyblazer]

Don't see why India need an allrounder at home, where you play 2 spinners. The 2 spinners will do majority of the bowling anyway. Its away from home when India play 3 seamers and 1 spinner that a 5th bowler i.e. a 4th seamer might be required to share the workload as the spinner won't get much assistance in the 1st innings and the 3 seamers might get overbowled.
I think India could look at Bhuvneshwar and Irfan as the seam bowling allrounders abroad. At home, just pick a specialist batsman at 6 and go in with 4 frontline bowlers, 2 seamers and 2 spinners.

yep - would have to agree

Bhuvneshwar and Irfan are the two all-round options, I'd be tempted to play them both - a fit Varun Aaron and Umesh Yadav would probably be the other two seamers for me - with Ishant in the frame depending on his form. Dinda doesn't look too bad but it is early days

Varun Aaron hasn't played a Ranji match this season and barely played 1 first class match last year, in which he didn't pick up a wicket. In 11 FC games, he has a FC average of 42. I am struggling to understand the hype. Just because he bowls quick? Well, he does nothing with the ball in hand. There are at least 10 better options in India, at present.

yep - because he is quick ... but I take the point that he is maybe not ready yet, in which case stick with Ish. What do you think of Basant Mohanty - his Fc record is excellent.

The problem with him though is that he doesn't seem like an athlete. Doubt he'll be able to sustain the pace with that sort of run-up and action. Needs to play a lot more FC cricket. His fitness, at present, just isn't good enough, for a fast bowler.

Just telling what I told Yes Aaron isn't an athlete. He needs to do a lot of running and try to become a sprinter. If you want to bowl fast for longer periods you need to be a sprinter. Of course there was Amby who when he needed to could bowl fast but there are always exceptions.

[greyblazer]

Yadav is certainly the long term replacement for Zaheer, but to be fair India need to realise that the pitches they produce are death zones for young fast bowlers. None of the names mentioned above will achieve anything until they play regularily in an environment thta allows them to maintain form on a regular basis, or to build form after patches of bad play.... at the moment I fear too many Indian bowlers get to a 4 day game on bad form and have to face expected high scoring on pitches not produced for result cricket.

They also need to be better in their selection policies because a few Indian bowlers have looked ok in recent years but they have a few bad tests on dead, unhelpful tracks, and then they get throw back on dead pitches to prove themselves and work their way into form. Statistical analysis of Indian pace bowlers is pointless, if they average 38 on tracks that produce scores of 500 on a regular basis then they are probably doing a manageable job.... I mean 38 in India probably equates to much lower for bowlers in England simply due to the par score.

Someone like Pathan for instance playing only 25 odd test matches is an absolute failure in selection, he bowled brilliantly on a few bowling graveyard tracks, especially test 1 in Pakistan(Multan I think) in 2004, and although he had injuries recently, he never really cemented a first team place over about a decade since his debut anyway... a player averaging in the low 30's in both disciplines would arguably find a way as an automatic pick in most teams in the history of the game, except for India who struggle for pace bowlers? Bizarre!

Sreesanth I rate also, but again just like Munaf/RP Singh etc they show glimpses of good bowling, but are constantly getting dead pitches to prove themselves on, and no bowler in the history of the game can repeat success in those conditions. Sreesanth for instance blew Sri Lanka away in a test in 09-10, yet over the series this was forgotten as the pitches started to produce 700- declared and 600- declared games, and his stats at the end were as ragged as any other bowler in the series. RP Singh bowled England out in one test in the late 00's with good probing swing bowling, got dropped after dead pitch matches and then was thrown back to the lions vs South Africa. Munaf's career never recovered from the Pakistan tour in the late 00's again when he played on some unhelpful pitches, by memory India opened one innnigs with two spinners!!

The most indicative result is Sharma. He has adapted to dead pitches by losing his edge completely, he no longer bowls aggressive lines and simply goes through the motions... he bowls long spells and sets himself up for long innings, not for strike bowling, and its this defensive nature that is a result of playing on too many non result wickets. As a youngster he had nip and late swing and bowled full and aggressive, he has morphed into a very average player.

At times when he seems to throw caution to the wind he still looks a capable test bowler, the 5 for in England for instance where he just bowled naturally at a time England had de facto already won was refreshing to see. Id like to see him operate with a bit more wanto aggression and be told to forget stats and how expensive he is.

Playing that Zimbabwe side in 2005 helps. Pathan's record looks good because of Bang. and Zimb and that too Zimb at their worst. In 2004 Pak. tracks did a bit. He lost the ability to swing it late at decent pace and once you lose that it becomes hard to survive. Sree will bowl one great spell and some mediocre ones. Munaf looks lazy and as a result hasn't worked on his fitness. I can say the same about RP Singh. Sharma is a case of coaches trying too many things and as a result he has lost it.

[shankycricket]

In the IPL, Munaf had the keeper standing up to him from ball one. Surely he can't even be considered for India?

[greyblazer]

You can laugh but at present it is better to think of even Vinay Kumar rather than Munaf.