There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Gingerfinch » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:01 pm

I'd ask Root to open........again, keep Ballance if Root doesn't return, bring Prior back, and also brkng back Monty, who is the best spinner available. I know he can't bat, but hey, the cupboard is bare, or full of value products.
As for the third seamer. Bresnan' Finn, or Onions. Not too worried.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby m@tt » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:19 pm

My initial reaction is that I would be looking to get this XI together...

01 Cook, 02 Root, 03 Bell, 04 KP, 05 Taylor, 06 Stokes, 07 Prior, 08 Broad, 09 Finn, 10 Anderson, 11 Kerrigan

Three #11s is a problem, but not sure how to avoid that. Rankin, Panesar, Onions and (flavour of the month for the armchair fans) Mills are all also #11s. The obvious exception being Bresnan.

Asking Root to open again may test him, but the quality of the seam attack he will be facing this summer will, with no disrespect to the opposition, give him a gentler introduction to opening at this level compared to what he faced during the summer. Whilst he could be kept in the middle order, I feel that the like of Taylor and Ballance are more ready then Chopra and Robson.

Kerrigan's spot is the most difficult to decide on. He is probably the second best spinner available, after Monty and before Tredwell (given that the latter has struggled in FC cricket in recent years). Though England have lost confidence in Finn, it is easy to see how he can regain that - bowl fast and accurately, like he has done in there past, and take wickets. With Panesar, it is difficult to see what he can do. His batting, fielding and catching will not improve. As a bowler he will not learn any new tricks. So what do England do?

Of course, much of this is dependent on County form. No point recalling players if they aren't in form. If Taylor isn't in form and Ballance is, then latter is a better option. For Prior, read Buttler or Davies. For Finn, Bresnan or Onions. For Kerrigan, Tredwell or Panesar.

If the senior players aren't in form, then that's a bigger problem and bigger decisions needs to be made. For replacements, the Lions squad is probably the best port of call. But there needs to be a mix - we need Cook, Bell and KP especially to guide the younger batsmen.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:27 am

IMO England will go into deep troubles if the replace senior players with inexperienced players.It will take years for the juniors to settle in and from what we have seen there might be a case that even after 3 years of experimentation not even one junior establishes himself.Whereas the likes of Cook,Bell,KP,Prior,Jimmy and Monty will start scoring tons or taking five fers in next series or soon thereafter.One cannot replace quality and experience.It is better to first find solution to No6 and opener, rather than fiddle with remaining positions as well and create many more problems.This is not a batch of wooden chairs which can be replaced in wholesale if the old ones are faulty.Here in cricket it comes down to skill and experience which cannot be manufactured by technology or over confidence in talented youths.Stick with what has worked with more probability and given peaks of success as well at times.With a brand new look team there is less chance of seeing even one peak.More chances of going through more downs.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby shankycricket » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:06 am

I wouldn't bring back Monty. Either invest in Borthwick (he's got some potential albeit clearly very raw) or go to Tredwell for the summer if they want a holding spinner. He'd do the same job as Monty but offers more in the other departments.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:41 am

shankycricket wrote:I wouldn't bring back Monty. Either invest in Borthwick (he's got some potential albeit clearly very raw) or go to Tredwell for the summer if they want a holding spinner. He'd do the same job as Monty but offers more in the other departments.


Are you sure he can do the same job as Monty with the ball or is it a hope in him like in any new comer . Especially when Monty is the second best spinner and a match winner as he takes a good proportion of five fers whereas many England fans feel that Borthwick is not even the third best in their country.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:29 am

backfootpunch wrote:my team for next couple of series

cook
root
bell
KP
ballance
stokes
prior
broad
onions
anderson
panesar

im hoping prior scores some runs for sussex, if he doesnt then id bring in buttler for bairstow who isn't convincing in front of or behind the stumps

A tail starting at 7 and only 10 who can field? A recipe for disaster, I reckon.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:42 am

Jos Buttler has never really blown me away with his keeping ability, and his batting can be inventive but very erratic.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby shankycricket » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:31 pm

Wouldn't bring Trott back straightaway. Would be too risky. Let him prove that he is "mentally ready" to return by scoring some runs in FC cricket. I also agree with Arthur that he should now compete with KP and Bell for a spot rather than playing alongside them. I think they need to get 1 youngster in the middle order playing alongside 2 seniors to get some sort of transition going. So they have to decide which 2 out of Trott, KP and Bell they are gonna retain. At present, Trott isn't in the picture and based on form over the last 12 months, Bell and KP have been better anyway. So those are the 2 I'd retain. I wouldn't be bringing Trott back at least for the SL series, even if he's available. The youngster I'd pick alongside Bell and KP in the middle order is Root although if the likes of Chopra and Robson are not deemed ready then I wouldn't be opposed to opening with Root and getting another young batsman (say, Taylor or Ballance) in the middle order. But personally, I think Roots belongs at 5.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby shankycricket » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:04 pm

clubcricketeradi wrote:
shankycricket wrote:I wouldn't bring back Monty. Either invest in Borthwick (he's got some potential albeit clearly very raw) or go to Tredwell for the summer if they want a holding spinner. He'd do the same job as Monty but offers more in the other departments.


Are you sure he can do the same job as Monty with the ball or is it a hope in him like in any new comer . Especially when Monty is the second best spinner and a match winner as he takes a good proportion of five fers whereas many England fans feel that Borthwick is not even the third best in their country.


I never said Borthwick can do the same job as Monty. I meant, if they want to develop a potentially wicket taking spinner for the long term, Borthwick has got something about him thats worth investing in. However, if they feel his lack of control at this stage makes him too big a risk (understandably so) and want a spinner for the short term i.e. someone who can do a holding job against SL and India next summer then I'd opt for Tredwell over Monty. You don't really need a wicket taking spinner in English conditions, especially when you've got 4 seamers (including Stokes). They're the ones who'll have to do the bulk of the wicket taking in England, especially against sides like SL and India, who play spin well . You don't really expect Monty or Tredwell to run through the Indian or SL batting lineups in conditions that don't assist spin. They will be needed to play a holding role and in that case, I'd go for the one who offers more overall. In conditions where spinners are expected to be matchwinners, I'd pick Monty. But in non-spinning conditions, he's been awful in recent times. I think he averages something like 80 in his last 5 Tests (3 in NZ and 2 in Oz). He should be used as an Asia specialist from now on.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:09 pm

Nothing wrong in investing in Borthwick at A team level, and letting him learn with his county. He's 22, and too inexperienced.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby DiligentDefence » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:25 pm

If we want our spinners to develop we need to play a higher proportion of our championship games in the summer. Half the games are played before the end of May.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:15 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Nothing wrong in investing in Borthwick at A team level, and letting him learn with his county. He's 22, and too inexperienced.

unfortunately durham dont bowl him enough for him to get any experience

he's 5 or 6 years away from being half decent

i was hoping rashid would have improved by now, but he seems to be becoming a batsmen who bowls, someone needs to ask him whether he wants to have a good county career as a batsmen or take the difficult route and put in a lot of hard work on his bowling and play test cricket for an extended period of time, there is no doubt he has the talent

his record is actually pretty good when you consider the majority of his games are played at headingley
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:57 pm

With the opening position still up for grabs and the captaincy under scrutiny, Varun Chopra may well find himself in the England setup sooner than one would think as the Warwickshire opener was a former England U19 captain.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:31 am

i would expect root to perform much better against much lower quality bowling that sri lanka and india will provide, hopefully he will score runs and start to rebuild his confidence

playing some ODI cricket will hopefully help him regain his fluency aswell
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:49 am

According to Vaughan, Pietersen should be made vice-captain. This says more about Vaughan than it does about Pietersen. Is there nothing too stupid for him to say or do in order to keep his name in the media?
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