Dhoni retires from tests

[rich1uk]

I think you are not really understanding what M-S means by saying captaincy is easy

due to the sheer volume of analytics teams have at their disposal now captains take the field with pre-planned strategies for every batsman worked out in committee with coaches and analysts before the game , they don't have to think for themselves

the difference between a good captain and a bad captain is how long they will just continue to stick to those plans even when its blindingly obvious they aren't working , and as I said above, in cook's case that usually only happened at the end of a session when he had the opportunity to have another committee meeting in the break

this thread is about dhoni tho and as a neutral observer he sometimes struck me as very apathetic to what was going on around him and especially when his team was struggling, or towards the end of a series that was lost, would appear to just let the game coast too much as if he had basically given up. maybe its only happened the last couple of years but that's my impression of him.

I think his off-field strengths were what made him a successful captain rather than his on-field captaincy

[meninblue]

I think you are not really understanding what M-S means by saying captaincy is easy

due to the sheer volume of analytics teams have at their disposal now captains take the field with pre-planned strategies for every batsman worked out in committee with coaches and analysts before the game , they don't have to think for themselves

the difference between a good captain and a bad captain is how long they will just continue to stick to those plans even when its blindingly obvious they aren't working , and as I said above, in cook's case that usually only happened at the end of a session when he had the opportunity to have another committee meeting in the break

this thread is about dhoni tho and as a neutral observer he sometimes struck me as very apathetic to what was going on around him and especially when his team was struggling, or towards the end of a series that was lost, would appear to just let the game coast too much as if he had basically given up. maybe its only happened the last couple of years but that's my impression of him.

I think his off-field strengths were what made him a successful captain rather than his on-field captaincy

I agree that is made easy with pre-known weakness. Now everyone knows Maxwell is weak against leg spin as exploited during IPL. But a good captain can add to it on a particular day, he can observe the footwork, the strokes that batsman is trying to play and deliveries that are likely to get him out and pass this info to bowlers, set field accordingly. So on field also a captain can plan dismissals which were not even observe by staff. Yes, those will be rare but such opportunities arise due to bad form. And by tough i do not only mean sighting unknown weaknesses, but also keeping an eye on getting the mandatory overs bowled,involvement in selection process, bowling plan change as the batsmen as you pointed,getting team together, motivating everyone,trying to resolve differences in team.

As for Dhoni, he is neither a failed captian in tests nor a successful one. He is average.

The other vacancy that he has created is wicket keeper. Saha is first choice as of now in tests.

Options - Saha,Uthappa,Naman Ojha,Parthiv Patel,Gautham,Sanju Samson,Dinesh Karthik

Most of them will be hopeful of playing tests again or debut.

[shankycricket]

2 years too late but sanity prevails at last, nevertheless!

If Shastri actually believes what he said in the interview today "I dont give two hoots about the result as long as they fight" then he should be sent packing too.

Hopefully, Virat will lead this team in a new direction.

[Dr Cricket]

Uthappa is not a test keeper.
For me Saha, Ojha, Sanju samson, Dinesh Karthik and the punjab keeper forgot his name are the options.

[Dr Cricket]

2 years too late but sanity prevails at last, nevertheless!

If Shastri actually believes what he said in the interview today "I dont give two hoots about the result as long as they fight" then he should be sent packing too.

Hopefully, Virat will lead this team in a new direction.

Well I agree with Shastri there.
I always prefer india to fight, far better to give it all then than lose easily, wins will follow but it is important india never loses easily and teams have to fight hard to win games.

[Gingerfinch]

Good things about Dhoni.

Allowing Bell to bat on during the 2012 (ish) tour. In all, he comes across as a gentleman.

Only watched him bat once, and he scored about 70 at Edgbaston, when all the star studded players fell meekly.

[alfie]

I think the right time for Dhoni to stand down...some might have wished a little earlier ; but I'd argue Kohli perhaps wasn't ready then. Think he may be now : yes he still gets a bit fired up at times - though you could have probably said the same of Ponting , among other Australian captains. Certainly his batting , coming back after a wretched tour of England , displays real maturity now. I think he will do all right ; and given the generally young group he has to work with the timing seems good.
But anyway I salute Dhoni for the service he has given India . If he wasn't always the greatest tactical leader , he did a pretty good job of leading by example , and he had a fair deal of success. And as Dr Robert has just pointed out , he was a gentleman. He can leave the game with honour.

[shankycricket]

2 years too late but sanity prevails at last, nevertheless!

If Shastri actually believes what he said in the interview today "I dont give two hoots about the result as long as they fight" then he should be sent packing too.

Hopefully, Virat will lead this team in a new direction.

Well I agree with Shastri there.
I always prefer india to fight, far better to give it all then than lose easily, wins will follow but it is important india never loses easily and teams have to fight hard to win games.

But he said he doesn"t give "too hoots" about the result. I mean, seriously? All this "putting up a fight" can only take you so far. At some stage, the results have to come. We have won ONE Test across 4 tours and apart from South Africa, our opponents haven't had a particularly experienced team either. So this "inexperience" logic doesn't work. After the end of the 4 overseas tours, we have only 3 or 4 or at the most 5 players, who can come out with any credit. If you're convincing me that all is well and all these "fights" put up will soon result in a victory, then thats not working. I'm yet to see any significant progress to where we were in SA at the end of that tour on this very day last year. The Team Director coming out and giving statements that he doesn't give two hoots about the final result is shocking and disgraceful.

[Dr Cricket]

Getting confused here didn't you expect Australia to win 4-0 and top of that you said it would be a miracle if India get a draw let alone have 3 test matches go to the final day.

I agree with Bharath Ramaraj what can Dhoni or any indian captain do if the bowlers can't even bowl to a set plan.
Dhoni sets 8-2 field and what does the bowlers do bowl at the legs, Dhoni protect the leg side what does the bowlers do bowl a wide long hop.

I suspect Indian fans will call for Kohli head when India lose 4-0 or 3-1 abroad, India are not gonna win abroad unless the bowlers can take 20 wickets no captain is gonna change that.

[shankycricket]

Getting confused here didn't you expect Australia to win 4-0 and top of that you said it would be a miracle if India get a draw let alone have 3 test matches go to the final day.

I agree with Bharath Ramaraj what can Dhoni or any indian captain do if the bowlers can't even bowl to a set plan.
Dhoni sets 8-2 field and what does the bowlers do bowl at the legs, Dhoni protect the leg side what does the bowlers do bowl a wide long hop.

I suspect Indian fans will call for Kohli head when India lose 4-0 or 3-1 abroad, India are not gonna win abroad unless the bowlers can take 20 wickets no captain is gonna change that.

My prediction was based on how India played in.Eng. The lack of movement in Australia and Virat's return to form has helped us compete but the overall result remains the same.

Aus team isn't really great without Clarke and with Warner failing 2 tests in a row, we really should've a Test. Instead, we hear the same, old "inexperience" excuses for squandering Tests every time. I thought Wellington was the saturation point when we managed to concede 700 from 90/5. Lord's brought some false hope but we're back to the same, old nonsense. Not to mention the inexplicable batting collapses right throughout.

On the whole, I just haven't seen much progress from the SA tour to now. We're about to slip to No.7 in the Test rankings and we're being told the results don't matter at all.

[Dr Cricket]

I see paul newman wrote a joke of an article on Daily mail.

[Arthur Crabtree]

The stuff I see about Dhoni not caring for Tests doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and feels a little insulting.

This was a significant Test career, if not a wholly successful one. With ten years at the top playing for India, most of it as captain, his end feels epochal.

I know there is controversy in his relationships with business figures off the field, which I'm a long way from being competent to comment on. But I'd be interested in reading an overview of that. As an important cricketing figure in a time when India truly took control of the world game, and its engine was relocated to the IPL, in retrospect, he might come to be seen as a totemic figure of his times. And it is only the old world part of his career that is over.

Good luck to Virat Kohli.

[DiligentDefence]

Given the extreme pressure Indian cricketers are under and the demands of the job plus the IPL the only real surprise to me is that he did not make this decision sooner.

[ddb]

SpiceBoxofEarth: You could almost say that Dhoni's captaincy graph matches Zaheer's career one. Once he declined, India couldn't bowl teams out. #Dhoni

This is a very good point that is missed.

[Arthur Crabtree]

But as an explanation, it's limited in scope. It doesn't help answer a lot of other issues. Maybe Kumble would have been useful as well? And a lot of other players.

Of course it is axiomatic that the best team usually wins. And the best team in the conditions usually wins. But the captain does influence the marginal factors. Say, if this can be imagined, Australia in this series have 60% of the talent on show, given the conditions, and India 40%. Obviously that is a huge advantage. the captain influences 5-10% for both sides, for good and for bad. They won't make a team have the players you need to win as such, but they do influence the marginals. And on a given day, that can sway the direction of the game.

Lots of chat about whether the captain matters. But in getting small decisions right, the tack of the path of the game can be nudged by good, intelligent decision making, and a feel for the qualities of the side. That 10% of influence on either side can make a difference. Cricket is a game where a correct decision on Thursday can win you a game on Monday. Butterfly wings.