Spot Fixing?

[SaintPowelly]

I hate it how everyone assumes that "'Amir has been dragged into it"

[Albondiga]

Personally, I see this matter quite simply.

If the courts find them innocent they're innocent. If the courts find them guilty- then they're guilty.

Never a truer word spoken. The more the accusations, counter-accusations and general "make something connected when it isn't" attitude is what really harms cricket, not the allegations themselves (unless they do prove to be guilty).

BTW, developments (although hardly unexpected) tonight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket ... 953417.stm

Good to see the ICC have suspended the trio....

Of course, we mustn't confuse the anti-corruption investigation by the ICC with the criminal investigation being undertaken by the police. In terms of the criminal investigation, the burden of proof is greater. For example, no criminal investigation would've found Marlon Samuels guilty, but the iCC still slapped him with a two-year ban, and deservedly so, IMHO.

Foget the "wider picture" -- corruption like any other crime should be proven. It is not a crime to bowl a no ball although in purely cricketing terms it's undesirable. It is however a crime to take money from a source informing him (or agreeing with him) when the no balls are to be bowled. Cricket, however, is almost the perfect sport on which to bet seeing that a test match could have at least 90 X 6 X 5 opportunities to bet if a simple bet was made on the outcome of each delivery.
I see it as almost impossible to stop given how short term gain figures in human nature; I have little sympathy in cheating and believe it should be punished but to risk a career that could have been one of the greatest of all time seems stupid beyond comprehension.


I say "little sympathy" because I see a grey area if either the player or his family were being threatened with their lives; Blackmail is easy to expose if you have the courage but your blackmailers could still be in a position to carry out their threat.

I am pleased that the tour is to continue but Pakistan could be forgiven if they lose 5 - 0 given that they have lost three of their better players.

[Chris de Burgh]

What has happened is a crying shame as Pakistani cricket was on the road to recovery after the terrorist attacks against the Sri Lanka cricket team. Plus with the youngsters they have the future looked bright. Yet again Pakistan court controversy and it does nothing but dent morale and hinder progress. It also makes the ICC anti-corruption unit look weak as it was discovered by a sleazy weekend tabloid and not those whose job it was to track this sort of thing down.

[SaintPowelly]

I wouldn't say that it it makes the ICC anti-corruption unit look weak

How often do the police solve crimes without help from the public ??

[Chris de Burgh]

admittedly the police do often use the publics help, but what the ICC needs is some firm action taken after all facts have arisen and to avoid a huge screw up. If nothing happens or if the punishments dished out are weak the reputation of both the ICC and cricket as a whole will take a hit. I really hope that this is sorted out and the best interests of cricket are prioritised and preserved but I have a funny feeling that it won't happen.

[Dimi]

Yeah, one of the few interesting points of that press conference was where Flannigan said that they try their absolute best to fight corruption in cricket but they can't be 100% proof. They do their best to educate the players but it's up to the players to either report approaches as instructed, or put their career at risk.

[SaintPowelly]

I can't see any of the players getting a life ban. probably 2-3 years.

But if Amir gets a lesser punishment because he is 'naive', that'd outrage me more - At 18 he is an adult and should be treated as such

[D/L]

...I have little sympathy in cheating and believe it should be punished but to risk a career that could have been one of the greatest of all time seems stupid beyond comprehension.

I say "little sympathy" because I see a grey area if either the player or his family were being threatened with their lives; Blackmail is easy to expose if you have the courage but your blackmailers could still be in a position to carry out their threat...

Wise words, as always, Albondiga. There is possibly more to this than meets the eye and which the players implicated dare not reveal. Before bookmaking was made legal in the UK many years ago, the bookmakers had some very unpleasant means at their disposal for collecting their debts. Who knows what pressure these players may be under.

[SaintPowelly]

...I have little sympathy in cheating and believe it should be punished but to risk a career that could have been one of the greatest of all time seems stupid beyond comprehension.

I say "little sympathy" because I see a grey area if either the player or his family were being threatened with their lives; Blackmail is easy to expose if you have the courage but your blackmailers could still be in a position to carry out their threat...

Wise words, as always, Albondiga. There is possibly more to this than meets the eye and which the players implicated dare not reveal. Before bookmaking was made legal in the UK many years ago, the bookmakers had some very unpleasant means at their disposal for collecting their debts. Who knows what pressure these players may be under.

But then they'd have to prove that their families were under threat, which would mean giving evidence in court to convict the blackmailers, which begs the question why they didn't do that in the first place !!

[D/L]

It’s all conjecture, SP, and there may be nothing in it at all. However, bookmakers who operate illegally cannot rely upon the law to enforce payment of debts etc. and will always have other, less legitimate, means at their disposal. These players wouldn’t be the first people to “take the rap” in order to protect others.

[Dimi]

I'm getting fed up of these 'press conferences'. Yesterday it was the ICC basically saying they're not the police, now Collingwood can't really say much because the less than smart media are asking him questions like "did you have suspicions of the Pakistani players fixing things in the test matches?"

[Mr Popodopolous]

Latest seems to be that the players seem to have admitted taking money, and have been released without charge:

http://www.mynews.in/News/butt_asif_aam ... 86936.html

[betterpolo]

Latest seems to be that the players seem to have admitted taking money, and have been released without charge:

http://www.mynews.in/News/butt_asif_aam ... 86936.html

'Salman Butt, pacers Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Aamer have admitted that they were paid money by bookie Mazhar Majeed to fix the things during their Lord's Test against England.'

'They denied that this money was given to them for spot-fixing like bowling no-balls etc.'

Don't understand that article.

I guess where we're at is that the players have admitted taking cash but are saying it is for sponsorship deals.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Latest seems to be that the players seem to have admitted taking money, and have been released without charge:

http://www.mynews.in/News/butt_asif_aam ... 86936.html

'Salman Butt, pacers Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Aamer have admitted that they were paid money by bookie Mazhar Majeed to fix the things during their Lord's Test against England.'

'They denied that this money was given to them for spot-fixing like bowling no-balls etc.'

Don't understand that article.

I guess where we're at is that the players have admitted taking cash but are saying it is for sponsorship deals.

I found it fairly unclear too...

I agree with your analysis of the matter.

[SaintPowelly]

They can claim what they like about how they got the money, but with the evidence that has been shown already.. it should be up to them to prove their innocence

how did the bookie know when no-balls would be bowled ??