India the Test Future?

[OffStumpYorker]

Dont forget theres also the World T20 WC between the NZ and England Series, so any test players selected might still be in T20 Mode.

the SL series was only 3 tests anyway, how many are they talking of removing?

[ddb]

Dont forget theres also the World T20 WC between the NZ and England Series, so any test players selected might still be in T20 Mode.

the SL series was only 3 tests anyway, how many are they talking of removing?

Removed all the tests, definitely a SL decision because they are in massive debt and need some help to pay their players etc. Not like it would have done much apart from give false hope as we'll beat them even in this state.

Pakistan series was off last month.

9 months is a long time. I can't see VVS playing much in 9 months so could be axed who knows. Dravid will probably retire after this series. Sachin...we'll see.

Bigger worry is in Gambhir, Sehwag. For next 2 tests in Aus, you have to make some changes. And it shouldn't be Kohli that should be going out. If you know you're losing 4-0 why play seniors? I'd bring in Rahane for Gambhir, Rohit for VVS if both fail in the 3rd innings. Maybe their change will be Rohit for Gambhir and Dravid to open(which will flop) but we'll have to see.

[OffStumpYorker]

Thanks ddb, I didnt realise the Pak series had been called off, I thought it was only on the cards.

I would have thought that a series against India would have boosted the coffers in a big way with the TV rights money and gate receipts, Mind you its only a year since they last played each other isnt it??

I agree with you about Dravid and Laxman, though Dravid may have enough legs (and reputation) to keep going until the end of the year then bow out after the England series, but a retirement after the current series wont be a huge shock.

SRT is the enigma, I do wonder if his heart is still in the International game or of hes just trying to get the 100th International 100.

In regards to Sehwag I'm suprised they dont drop him down to 5 and look for an opening partner for Gambhir, who would be on the cards?

[ddb]

Something like this(although not so bad) was always going to happen when we were number 1 for nearly 2 years and then won the World Cup.

Mentally it's probably draining and then playing so much due to the BCCI, IPL etc. I don't think the whole team has become bad overnight. This was a pretty good test team for 3 years. Didn't lose a series, there was a lot of fight.

Since then, I think Dhoni has set the example for the whole team, he's overworked, negative, bad batting, he scores when the rest of the team is already on the bus home. He hasn't once, from what I've seen in this test, had a chat with the bowlers.

I would have thought that a series against India would have boosted the coffers in a big way with the TV rights money and gate receipts, Mind you its only a year since they last played each other isnt it??

No, India/Pak haven't played each other since 2006.

I agree with you about Dravid and Laxman, though Dravid may have enough legs (and reputation) to keep going until the end of the year then bow out after the England series, but a retirement after the current series wont be a huge shock.

It's be rumoured for a bit that he will go here.

SRT is the enigma, I do wonder if his heart is still in the International game or of hes just trying to get the 100th International 100.

Nah, it's still there. See on the field, he's the only one putting in a effort. Eventually it's draining getting battered 6 times in a row though, even the best might look lost. Can't see him giving up yet/

In regards to Sehwag I'm suprised they dont drop him down to 5 and look for an opening partner for Gambhir, who would be on the cards?

Prepare to be surprised. Next year in India, Sehwag won't drop down.

[greyblazer]

First appoint a captain who can at least set decent fields for test cricket. A good example will be people kept saying to me that NZ lose not because Vettori was a bad test captain but NZ are rubbish. Now with Taylor as the captain they won a test in OZ.

Dhoni sets fields which are very very ordinary. He seems to think a team can win test matches by setting one-day fields but that will never work in test cricket. What is the sense in asking Ashwin to bowl middle and leg line with a deep point??? crazy. Yadav who looked good in the 1st test was asked to bowl one-day lines and the result is there for everyone to see. At MCG he was the one bowler who was bowling to a plan to Punter but at Sydney he was messed up by Dhoni.

Now every team knows early in Punter's innings bowl full and look to get Punter out lbw but once he gets set look to bowl back of a length on a off-stump channel. However great he maybe with regards to shifting his weight onto the back-foot it is still difficult to do well at the age of 37 if he tries to take a huge stride forward in an attempt to negate lbw against back of a length bowling. Indian bowlers looked so confused today that they didn't have a plan for any of the batsmen. Even spearhead Zaheer was trying too many things. Yes part of the reason was bowlers themselves but Dhoni's bizarre tactics didn't help.

Less said the better about the Indian batsmen as they aren't even getting their basics right. In a team you can find a player or two who would be out of form and keeps searching for the ball but with the Indian team everyone except SRT are looking out of sorts. The strange case is of Dravid as after getting to 30 at MCG he seems to have tried his best to get into bad form! He has no one but himself to blame for going into a shell and worrying too much about his technique.

[OffStumpYorker]

ddb, I meant the SL series not Pakistan. I'm aware of the issues espceially since the Mumbia attacks.

I'm fully expecting a tough series in India later this year, even hoping to attend one or two games, depending on the cost and holidays that I need to take.

I only mentioned Sehwag dropping to 5th as I've seen some reasonably good reasons from Indian fans for this to happen, for one hed come in when the ball was older and less prone to movement, as well as having tired bowlers at his mercy.

[ddb]

Nah, you should win against India if the team doesn't change.

[OffStumpYorker]

Nah, you should win against India if the team doesn't change.

I dont know, India is a tough country to play in, and the results have shown that over a number of years, England have only had a win ratio of 18% since 1960, that drops to 12.5% during the last 15 years.

Dont forget the climate helps India, and I expect a spin attack of Ojha and Ashwin.

[HarryPotter]

This pitches thing isn't really the thing tbh, easy thing to say but ultimately not the reason Ishant hasn't kicked on and averages 2000 away from home. Eric Simons, I don't know what he's done because it's not as if Ishant isn't a hard worker. But again, this attack can take 20 wickets, ultimately isn't the root cause of this, I'd blame management and Dhoni's "captaincy" there more than the inexperienced bowlers. Batting...well...yeah.

Till Nov 2013, we're not leaving India. It's the best time to rebuild, start again. This isn't happening because of talent, they have it in bundles. The fight etc since the world cup is gone. 2 of the big 3 have to go after this. Gambhir too. Dhoni no but his captaincy has been awful. Sehwag you keep as he'll get his stuff together sooner rather than later. I'd keep Sachin too out of all 3 as he's the only that looked remotely interested today. Rohit, Rahane, Pujara - play them.

What Aus have done successfully, despite not actually dropping many players is put all the players places at question and reap the rewards from that.

I disagree about the pitches but you make a very good point about being at home and rebuilding.

Gambhir never was all that IMO and I am not sure about Sehwag, I said 3 years ago his career will end in a drawn out and painful way. Because he is boom and bust people will always say the 300 is around the corner so he will be given a lot of rope and fail for a long time and probably take his average sub 50.

Laxman I like a lot and Sachin is ultimate class. Dravid has held them together recently. Who to drop? Who to replace them: I agree with you, plenty of people must be given a chance and next time India must manage their transition ruthlessly.

[sussexpob]

India need to take a little bit of an Australian example with some of their older players. The Aussies were the masters of gently leading underperforming older players into retirement(which leads to the question, who the hell is Ricky Ponting banging in the ACB staff last couple of years), and they did it in a way that was quite respectful.... quite words over the shoulders so you didnt get shamed in public, made it look like their decisions.... they even made Martyn's mid series dropping seem like a Martyn decision!

Laxman has to go at the end of this series as a minimum, and Gambhir if he doesnt play himself into some kind of form by the end of this.I would actually go nuclear and drop all 3 of the legends and start fresh, because while one of them are still in there you always get a feeling that the transition is yet to be complete... as with Australia now, they have remoulded into a decent team, but you know if Hussey and Ponting are still there at the next ashes it will be an indictment of the team.

I dont know what effect playing with those legends puts on others in the team? I dont know its adding pressure to a lot of youngsters who would prefer to play outside the direct gaze of such stars!

[HarryPotter]

Problem is its too late. They could have dropped Dravid 2 years ago (yes, I know he had a great 2011) but didnt. Now they will all go at once and 2-6 will be new players.

The compounded it by picking the wrong replacements and chopping and changing / going back to Ganguly etc etc.

[OffStumpYorker]

I must say I'm not suprised that Dravid and Laxman are still playing, and I've maintained that they would retire after the Australia series, especially if they'd won, there were signs against the lasser test teams that they were looking at fresh faces, as the older players were 'rested' during tours against the WI's,SL, etc.

Unfortunately, the ones that have been tried over the last couple of years havent lit the world alight, Badrinath, Vijay, Mukund, Raina, Pujara and a few others that I cant remember.

I dont see anyone in the BCCI even daring to suggest to SRT that his time coming to an end, and it might be time he consider retiring, for one I think they'd be lynched by the Fans.

[ddb]

I dont see anyone in the BCCI even daring to suggest to SRT that his time coming to an end, and it might be time he consider retiring, for one I think they'd be lynched by the Fans.

For one I think the guy has earned his right, more than the other 2, to decide around what time he wants to leave. Especially when he still looks so good. He's by far our best batsmen atm, not a donkey on the field, a good between the wickets. Not sure why we should put an end to that now and shove 4 youngsters together with no experience against NZ, risky. I don't think you can have a situation where all 3 go together even though I've suggested it occasionally when we've collapsed. The BCCI should have sat down with all 3 after England and decided whereabouts they reckoned they could play too. But they haven't, it seems.

And Pujara showed a lot of character and decent technique. He would have played this series and the England one if not for injury.

[OffStumpYorker]

I agree ddb, that having all three leave in a single go is suicidal.

As you say SRT has earned the right to make that decision, however at somepoint someone will need to have that conversation. I'm also looking at things without any rose tinted glasses (I'm an SRT fan believe it or not) and dont want to see SRT do what other greats have done, and have his career remembers for the last year as a failure.

It also says something about the rest of the team that SRT (the oldest member) is the most energized on the field. The point im making is that nobody seems to want to contemplate life after SRT, when it really needs to looked at. I personally dont see him playing after the end of this year, as I said it depends on whether he still has the drive to get up and bat in the morning, or face another defeat. he may yet get a second wind once the contrived 100th Hundred has been scored.

By the same token hasnt Dravid also earned that right after the way he has been a wall for India over the last 15 years, but I admit hes a lot closer than SRT to retirement, as we've seen his slip catching on the slide, although he had a blinder with the bat in the summer last year.

In regards to Pujara, I was going on his average of 21, which shows hes probably not quite ready for test cricket, he could do worse than look for an overseas contract for 2012/13 in order to help him develop a little faster, and gain some Experience of conditions outside the sub-continent.

[ddb]

It also says something about the rest of the team that SRT (the oldest member) is the most energized on the field. The point im making is that nobody seems to want to contemplate life after SRT, when it really needs to looked at. I personally dont see him playing after the end of this year, as I said it depends on whether he still has the drive to get up and bat in the morning, or face another defeat. he may yet get a second wind once the contrived 100th Hundred has been scored.

By the same token hasnt Dravid also earned that right after the way he has been a wall for India over the last 15 years, but I admit hes a lot closer than SRT to retirement, as we've seen his slip catching on the slide, although he had a blinder with the bat in the summer last year.

He seems fine at the moment, there's no visible signs that he's batting for that 100, just batting normally. Only twice has he really failed to get it, Mumbai and Delhi. Oval, he was batting so bad, he didn't deserve it. And he's been facing defeats throughout his career. He'll want to do his best to help India back on track IMO as will Dravid and Laxman. We'll see what they do after this series. Might be a big change or maybe it will be brushed under the carpet.

In regards to Pujara, I was going on his average of 21, which shows hes probably not quite ready for test cricket, he could do worse than look for an overseas contract for 2012/13 in order to help him develop a little faster, and gain some Experience of conditions outside the sub-continent.

Averages don't say much in 4/5 innings. Think he played at Durban on a green top and still lasted quite a while in both innings. And then at CT just got an absolute unplayable delivery from Steyn. It was his 72 vs Aus at no.3 at home chasing that caught the eye though, not many do that in their first test, wherever they are playing.