England end KP's international career.

[D/L]

Tredwell on KP: http://www.kentsportsnews.com/tredwell- ... 7-02-2014/

So directly now both Swann and Tredwell have come out and indicated there was no issues.

Hmmm, not really. I can see how people would point to them though as being supportive of their position.

[D/L]

"I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive"

Nice try, sp. Now let's have the quote without the last 5 words missing...

“I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive, certainly on a cricketing note.”

Credit to you though for not putting a full stop after the word "positive".

[sussexpob]

"I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive"

Nice try, sp. Now let's have the quote without the last 5 words missing...

“I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive, certainly on a cricketing note.”

Credit to you though for not putting a full stop after the word "positive".

I think his suggestion relating to cricket helps my argument more than yours..... so they didnt have beers and talk of their blossoming life long friendship, he just had a positive effect on cricket.

Last time I looked the Ashes wasnt a 3 month bonding session, it was a sporting contest.

[sussexpob]

"I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive"

Nice try, sp. Now let's have the quote without the last 5 words missing...

“I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive, certainly on a cricketing note.”

Credit to you though for not putting a full stop after the word "positive".

I think his suggestion relating to cricket helps my argument more than yours..... so they didnt have beers and talk of their blossoming life long friendship, he just had a positive effect on the cricket.

Last time I looked the Ashes wasnt a 3 month bonding session, it was a sporting contest.

[Durhamfootman]

Flower was quite content to feed his own point of view to Mike Selvey, whilst retaining full deniability rights. Maybe Poisonous Piers is simply balancing things out with KP's versions of the story?

Doubtless everything will be revealed in due course.

Perhaps there is some merit in the Peter Moores theory. He certainly wouldn't want KP around, and probably wouldn't want to have his second coming overshadowed in the press by being the man who ended KP's career.

I still firmly believe that Cook preferred to see KP's career ended, rather than risk having his own rather shaky position as captain undermined by Stuart Broad benefitting from a successful, KP inspired, WT20 campaign.

[KipperJohn]

...Well, what's done is done but any new team/director/coach will not be able to avail themselves of KP's services. Would you want that fait a complis if you were applying?

It’s entirely possible that any new coach following Flower would not want to avail himself of Pietersen’s services and inherit the problems that would probably go with it.

Doesn't have a choice - some coaches might alternatively relish the opportunity. If they are going to rebuild as they say they are the new coach may find he has to toe the line rather than stamp his own style. That might be off putting to some very good candidates.

By the way the issue of Trott's illness is very relevant - it epitomises some of the other serious issues, decisions and management of the tour - of equal if not more importance than KP.

A holistic approach is necessary - that's hardly been the case so far.

[D/L]

"I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive"

Nice try, sp. Now let's have the quote without the last 5 words missing...

“I didn’t recognise any personal conflict or anything like that. I don’t want to talk out of turn, either, but equally I didn’t really notice a great deal, and if I’m honest, my interaction with Kev in that last bit of the Test tour was really positive, certainly on a cricketing note.”

Credit to you though for not putting a full stop after the word "positive".

I think his suggestion relating to cricket helps my argument more than yours..... so they didnt have beers and talk of their blossoming life long friendship, he just had a positive effect on cricket.

Last time I looked the Ashes wasnt a 3 month bonding session, it was a sporting contest.

Interesting, though, that you chose to omit Tredwell's rider to his comments. Why deny anyone reading it the full context for the sake of five more words?

Last time I looked, it was useful to have players doing their best for each other.

[D/L]

...Well, what's done is done but any new team/director/coach will not be able to avail themselves of KP's services. Would you want that fait a complis if you were applying?

It’s entirely possible that any new coach following Flower would not want to avail himself of Pietersen’s services and inherit the problems that would probably go with it.

Doesn't have a choice - some coaches might alternatively relish the opportunity. If they are going to rebuild as they say they are the new coach may find he has to toe the line rather than stamp his own style. That might be off putting to some very good candidates.

By the way the issue of Trott's illness is very relevant - it epitomises some of the other serious issues, decisions and management of the tour - of equal if not more importance than KP.

A holistic approach is necessary - that's hardly been the case so far.

It's very difficult to see any connection, other than spurious ones that some would have us believe, between this issue and Trott's problems. The two issues are very different.

Potential successors to Flower probably know a great deal more about the Pietersen situation than we do and I'd imagine they'd rather not have to deal with it themselves.

[sussexpob]

No. Though certain expectations can be set out, a “healthy team environment” is not something that can be prescribed by management. It is much more organic than that and something that develops based upon mutual respect and players being seen to do the best they can for the team. It would seem that these attributes are things that do not feature highly in Pietersen’s priorities.

Trott’s problems, of course, are irrelevant to this particular discussion.

So the manager leaves the players to create their own positive atmosphere, but when someone then has a problem with that management strategy, they are called disruptive and released from their duties? Therefore this is not, by default, an organic process because (a) there is a need for players to conform to the coaches standard of "shut up, Im in charge" (b) the ECB Director stepped in to this "organic" atmosphere and sacked a guy for not falling into it?

Bottom line is, that unless you conformed to the coaches will without question, you were a goner, so the coach has created his own environment and culture in the team.

So, in fact, your argument has no basis whatsoever.

[sussexpob]

It's very difficult to see any connection, other than spurious ones that some would have us believe, between this issue and Trott's problems. The two issues are very different.

If you suffer from a stress related illness, the first thing a doctor looks at is environmental or scheduling factors that cause it. Where you work, the position of your life, the esteem that your peers around you have in you, from both perceptions, is all entirely relevant.

While we can only comment generally without further information, the indicators are strongly negative for the England management....

[D/L]

No. Though certain expectations can be set out, a “healthy team environment” is not something that can be prescribed by management. It is much more organic than that and something that develops based upon mutual respect and players being seen to do the best they can for the team. It would seem that these attributes are things that do not feature highly in Pietersen’s priorities.

Trott’s problems, of course, are irrelevant to this particular discussion.

So the manager leaves the players to create their own positive atmosphere, but when someone then has a problem with that management strategy, they are called disruptive and released from their duties? Therefore this is not, by default, an organic process because (a) there is a need for players to conform to the coaches standard of "shut up, Im in charge" (b) the ECB Director stepped in to this "organic" atmosphere and sacked a guy for not falling into it?

Bottom line is, that unless you conformed to the coaches will without question, you were a goner, so the coach has created his own environment and culture in the team.

So, in fact, your argument has no basis whatsoever.

Not for the first time, your comments are so full of wild assumptions and strange extrapolations, that it is hardly worth a reply.

No explanation for censoring some of Tredwell's words then?

[D/L]

It's very difficult to see any connection, other than spurious ones that some would have us believe, between this issue and Trott's problems. The two issues are very different.

If you suffer from a stress related illness, the first thing a doctor looks at is environmental or scheduling factors that cause it. Where you work, the position of your life, the esteem that your peers around you have in you, from both perceptions, is all entirely relevant.

While we can only comment generally without further information, the indicators are strongly negative for the England management....

Different person; different problems.

[sussexpob]

It's very difficult to see any connection, other than spurious ones that some would have us believe, between this issue and Trott's problems. The two issues are very different.

If you suffer from a stress related illness, the first thing a doctor looks at is environmental or scheduling factors that cause it. Where you work, the position of your life, the esteem that your peers around you have in you, from both perceptions, is all entirely relevant.

While we can only comment generally without further information, the indicators are strongly negative for the England management....

Different person; different problems.

True, I acknowledged that we are talking generally.

[sussexpob]

Not for the first time, your comments are so full of wild assumptions and strange extrapolations, that it is hardly worth a reply.

No explanation for censoring some of Tredwell's words then?

I dont think the expectation that a manager "manages" people is a wild assumption. Isnt that the core responsibility of their job?

As for Tredwell being "censored", I merely picked the parts that I felt were relevant to my argument. I hardly think that the extra line makes any difference whatsoever.

[KipperJohn]

There were so many problems on this tour that I expect most of us have lost count. However to us mere onlookers it would appear that two very quick decisions have been made - and surprise, surprise - Flower and KP have both gone -the latter for good it seems.

Apart from the T20 stuff the next Test isn't until June - I wouldn't have expected the results of a major review for at least another month or so, given Downton has only just taken up his job.

They've hardly had time to get over all the jet lag - perhaps that explains things.......