England squad for Pakistan series

[dan08]

Lyon really struggled in UAE.

[Dr Cricket]

Tredwell will be a bad pick, for the 3rd spinner I would go for one of the young spinners in County cricket.
Basically what Warne and bumble said the best spinner prospect right now goes.

Also be interesting to see how UAE plays since from most of my memory it doesn't really spin much, only world class spinner take wicket there.
England could have a tough time at UAE since no real Spin bowlers and Pakistan got a class spinner in Yasir Shah.

Probably Spin far more in West indies then it does in UAE and England only played one spinner in those games.

we have no idea how good yasir shah is as he has only played on spinner friendly wickets

i expect england to struggle against him though, as our batsmen tend to either block or slog against spin which on turning tracks is a recipe for disaster

the way he been bowling in Test so far, it is obvious to see he is a Class bowler.
Shane Warne rates him highly and the guy has hardly seen him.
By the way most of the pitches he bowled in Sri lanka were green seamer, Sri lanka prepared green decks since they were scared of Pakistan spin attack and let be honest Sri lanka current spinners are crap only Herath being any good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2V8rk1t2ck
here all of yasir Shah wickets in Sri lanka.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Also be interesting to see how UAE plays since from most of my memory it doesn't really spin much, only world class spinner take wicket there.
England could have a tough time at UAE since no real Spin bowlers and Pakistan got a class spinner in Yasir Shah.

In UAE, innings figures.
Panesar 6-62.
Craig 7-94.
Tahir 5-32.

Even bowlers like Harris, Duminy and North have chipped in. I'm not suggesting anyone goes in with four spinners, like India in the seventies. Just a balanced attack. Is a third (/fourth?) seamer really going to offer more advantage than a second spinner?

I go along with Shanky's side, though I'm not sure about Ballance and Bairstow. Maybe ask around and look for a a really good player of spin from the ranks of CC?

You always have to pick 2 spinners in UAE or Asia and West indies
my point was really saying that UAE decks don't really spin like West indies or india/Sri lanka ones do, it mostly skids and even Nasser/Atherton pointed out that it might even spin less than West indies and they didn't even pick 2 spinner although it did seem England picked the team using data and not their eyes on that tour.
Watching this I barely see any deliveries spinning much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGHyYvgLu_A
basically think UAE might be a place where only Really really good spinner that will take Wickets and the rest might struggle a bit.
gonna be tough winter for Ali and Rashid since they will be expected to take wickets.

The players I mentioned aren't really good spinners though. I doubt any of them average under about 33.

[Dr Cricket]

Lyon really struggled in UAE.

Yep Australian Spinners struggled big time.
O'keefe averaged 54
Smith 48
and lyon 140

Yasir Shah averaged 17 and Babar 26.

for the NZ series the games were generally high scoring though Craig averaged 41, Sodhi 67 although Vettori averaged 24 but he only played one game.
Yasir Shah and Babar averaged low 30s in that series.

Wonder what pitches UAE will prepare the poor draw pitches or the Result pitches that often only suit the class spinners.

[Dr Cricket]

Paneasar at that time was a class spinner.
Like I said above Craig averared 41 on that tour not exactly world class although he did win one game but that could be down to having runs to play with.
Tahir is actually a decent spinner just doesn't have a stock leg break and patience.

There probably more evidence of overseas spinners not doing well in UAE then them doing well.
Which is down to the pitches mostly being good wickets where only good spinner will take wicket the rest will have to work hard for them.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Those are just ok spinners, and I mentioned part timers taking wickets too. Tahir's Test record is very poor. Monty did well in Asia because it's right to pick spinners in Asia. He didn't get wickets in NZ.

In that Kiwi series, Craig was by far NZ's best wicket taker. Only Boult was effective among the seamers. The Australian attack failed as a group (Mitch1 did ok, but Starc and Siddle were as poor as the Aussie spinners). No one's going to suggest going into this series with one seamer though (me apart). I haven't read anyone looking at those games and concluding pace doesn't work in UAE. And as I said, the Kiwis got better as they dropped seamers and relied on spin.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England would hardly pick a second spinner, even in Asia, after Cardiff 09, when Monty and Swann didn't take a lot of wickets. No one seems to think the three pace bowlers in that game had anything to do with the lack of wickets. But it was just a pitch where the attack failed as a group on a pitch that helped none of them. The conclusions drawn after that game were illogical and set the team back in Dubai and Ahmedabad.

[m@tt]

I'd like to see a young spinner in the squad but then they'd probably benefit more by playing on the Lions tour than just be a squad member of the Test side.

Where are the lions playing although as warne and bumble said it depends on what the players do if they just carrying drinks then Lions is better but if their bowl thousands of balls at the nets then going on tour is so much beneficial.
Although it seem England are not doing a lions this year and doing an EPP in South africa/UAE.

Not sure how it's working in terms of Lions vs EPP, I've just been told by a member of the coaching set-up that a group is going to UAE and the fast bowlers are going to SA. It could be that a both groups go to the UAE with England, maybe as a Lions tour, and then the fast bowlers go to SA with England in the new year. Or maybe there will be a Lions tour in the new year but it just hasn't been finalised yet.

England will need to take a third spinner to UAE. They could go with Tredwell, alternatively I would expect Ansari to be first in line from the younger spinners (though I've heard things about his action...).

England would hardly pick a second spinner, even in Asia, after Cardiff 09, when Monty and Swann didn't take a lot of wickets. No one seems to think the three pace bowlers in that game had anything to do with the lack of wickets. But it was just a pitch where the attack failed as a group on a pitch that helped none of them. The conclusions drawn after that game were illogical and set the team back in Dubai and Ahmedabad.

That Cardiff decision was a poor one. A T20 game, on a different pitch to that used in the Test, span a bit and everyone got excited. All the Glamorgan fans on 606 (those were the days...) were saying it was madness. I think England's selection mistakes in Dubai and Ahmedabad were more to do with a lack of trust in Panesar (batting, fielding, attitude) than not recognising the need for a second spinner.

I've seen some people express frustration that we haven't played Rashid this summer. The English wickets would not have suited a two spinner attack and wouldn't have been any sort of preparation for the UAE, so I couldn't understand why people wanted him to play. The West Indies tour was a whole different matter.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Those that want Rashid in the side aren't thinking England would have a two spinner attack any more than they already have with Mo and Joe. They think Rashid would be their spinner. Though I don't agree.

Change the balance of the attack at Cardiff and Australia still amass 600. The pace bowlers offered no threat. People's acceptance of this leads to bias in selection. If Flower etc thought Monty wasn't a good selection in Dubai/Ahmedabad, well they were wrong. And if it was because they didn't trust Monty, then why did they take him? You can tell the attitude towards spin from the fact there were six(!) specialist pace bowlers in UAE, when they needed two, not even a third spinner (not even Samit) and from the attitude of ECB friendly journalists convinced that what worked in Sydney could be made to work anywhere. That became dogma.

[m@tt]

They took Panesar because as a pure spinner he was the best after Swann and there really wasn't anyone else to pick (in India, Patel was the second spinner in the first game...), plus the selectors would have chosen him, Flower and Strauss/Cook wouldn't have been in a position to choose someone else as the didn't get to see much if any of the county game. And Panesar did indeed prove them wrong, even if he couldn't affect the results in the UAE.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Always worrying when someone who is most probably right, disagrees with me so emphatically, Matt!

[Making_Splinters]

Dobell reporting Compton has been called in for a chat with Bayliss. Certainly an interesting turn of events.

[Arthur Crabtree]

The Guardian is saying Hales is going, and not Compo.

[Arthur Crabtree]

They are predicting Ansari will go. This squad is named tomorrow.

[Making_Splinters]

They are predicting Ansari will go. This squad is named tomorrow.

Ansari will go as the third spinner, but unlikely the first choice opener.