Is West Indies cricket dead ?

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:29 am

Sadly I think you are the minority ashes will always sell out and rating will always be high and Indian fans will always watch irrespective if they lose or win.
If anything repeated losses away as made more people wanna watch the test series against eng. and aus home and away.

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby alfie » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:22 am

Perhaps the main problem is that there is just too much cricket available to watch these days...Quite apart from actual tours to one's own country , we all have access to TV or Online viewing of International cricket all over the world - our own teams and others. And apart from Tests we have saturation coverage of ODIs and t20 plus various commercial leagues...
Years ago you looked forward to watching a Pollock or a Sobers when his team toured - knowing you might not get another chance for a few years : now if you miss a match the current main attraction will be on TV next Wednesday evening somewhere.
So people get a bit picky with their interest ; and with the price of tickets who can blame them ?

I would like to see the International programme tweaked a bit so that the "lesser" teams are not frozen out from the Big Countries ; primarily for their own sake of course , but also so familiarity doesn't cheapen the major rivalries - like the Ashes. I know the current rash of Ashes Series is a bit of a special case , working around World Cups etc ; but while I always look forward impatiently to the next one in the normal cycle (and often wish , say , SA were due again sooner) I'd rather experience that impatience - which serves to whet the appetite ! - than end up becoming slightly bored at the prospect of " yet another rematch".

Got a bit off the point there I'm afraid, sorry. But I remain an optimist : I fancy a natural balance may yet reassert itself in time. Hope West Indies remain a part of it.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby pompeymeowth » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:14 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:good article by pringle.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke ... fling.html

The head of WICB should probably resign over this.

yeah BCCI are just doing this to cut teams they ideally only want 6-7 teams playing which is why they would probably run survival of the fittest for the boards.

that would allow India to have 2-3 home tours and visit 2-3 times a year and not waste time playing WI/NZ/Sri/Zim/Ban when they could be playing Pak/SA/Aus/Eng most of the time.


Finally a Cameron who is "probably" worse than the one we have to endure.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:02 pm

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:06 pm

Didn't India refuse to play some games in SA because they didn't like the head of CSA?
I always say that everybody's right.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby Aidan11 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:56 am

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:47 pm

pompeymeowth wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:good article by pringle.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke ... fling.html

The head of WICB should probably resign over this.

yeah BCCI are just doing this to cut teams they ideally only want 6-7 teams playing which is why they would probably run survival of the fittest for the boards.

that would allow India to have 2-3 home tours and visit 2-3 times a year and not waste time playing WI/NZ/Sri/Zim/Ban when they could be playing Pak/SA/Aus/Eng most of the time.


Finally a Cameron who is "probably" worse than the one we have to endure.

:lmaoagain
And his name is also Dave....
:mrgreen:
Marlon Samuels seems to be the only player who did not agree to the strike:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/ ... 92267.html
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby meninblue » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:48 pm

The withdrawal from the tour of India will be a set back for WICB. BCCI has a reason to sue WICB as Indian series generate huge revenue rights in terms of broadcasters contracts. I guess the broadcasters would need to be paid back proportionate contract money which is lost revenue for both the broadcasters as well as BCCI. Without any series involving India, the chances of WICB improving their financial situation is less. BCCI will allow West Indies T20 superstars to play in IPL though. So at least the WI players will not suffer financially for sure. They will get the best salary for their specialized skills.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby sussexpob » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:03 pm

clubcricketeradi wrote:The withdrawal from the tour of India will be a set back for WICB. BCCI has a reason to sue WICB as Indian series generate huge revenue rights in terms of broadcasters contracts. I guess the broadcasters would need to be paid back proportionate contract money which is lost revenue for both the broadcasters as well as BCCI. Without any series involving India, the chances of WICB improving their financial situation is less. BCCI will allow West Indies T20 superstars to play in IPL though. So at least the WI players will not suffer financially for sure. They will get the best salary for their specialized skills.




Pretty sure under ICC regulations, all agreements are made under the laws of English courts, and therefore the WICB should be able to argue the contract is frustrated due to "Force Majeure". Regardless of the reasons why or the politics behind it, the WICB could not execute the tour due to the strike action being threatened by the players, and that was a decision that was outside of their control.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby meninblue » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:19 pm

sussexpob wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:The withdrawal from the tour of India will be a set back for WICB. BCCI has a reason to sue WICB as Indian series generate huge revenue rights in terms of broadcasters contracts. I guess the broadcasters would need to be paid back proportionate contract money which is lost revenue for both the broadcasters as well as BCCI. Without any series involving India, the chances of WICB improving their financial situation is less. BCCI will allow West Indies T20 superstars to play in IPL though. So at least the WI players will not suffer financially for sure. They will get the best salary for their specialized skills.




Pretty sure under ICC regulations, all agreements are made under the laws of English courts, and therefore the WICB should be able to argue the contract is frustrated due to "Force Majeure". Regardless of the reasons why or the politics behind it, the WICB could not execute the tour due to the strike action being threatened by the players, and that was a decision that was outside of their control.


I dont know what is "Force Majeure" so i cannot reply properly. Still from whatever context i understand, BCCI will sue them (WICB) as they have stated iirc. Like you say and i agree that WICB has the to defend themselves. It is nothing more than my personal guess that BCCI will sue for lost revenue/unfullfilled contract. The outcome of the litigation we cannot tell now as to which side will win or lose in court.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby sussexpob » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:27 pm

clubcricketeradi wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:The withdrawal from the tour of India will be a set back for WICB. BCCI has a reason to sue WICB as Indian series generate huge revenue rights in terms of broadcasters contracts. I guess the broadcasters would need to be paid back proportionate contract money which is lost revenue for both the broadcasters as well as BCCI. Without any series involving India, the chances of WICB improving their financial situation is less. BCCI will allow West Indies T20 superstars to play in IPL though. So at least the WI players will not suffer financially for sure. They will get the best salary for their specialized skills.




Pretty sure under ICC regulations, all agreements are made under the laws of English courts, and therefore the WICB should be able to argue the contract is frustrated due to "Force Majeure". Regardless of the reasons why or the politics behind it, the WICB could not execute the tour due to the strike action being threatened by the players, and that was a decision that was outside of their control.


I dont know what is "Force Majeure" so i cannot reply properly. Still from whatever context i understand, BCCI will sue them (WICB) as they have stated iirc. Like you say and i agree that WICB has the to defend themselves. It is nothing more than my personal guess that BCCI will sue for lost revenue/unfullfilled contract. The outcome of the litigation we cannot tell now as to which side will win or lose in court.


Force Majeure means "unavoidable accident" in Latin, and is usually put in contracts to account for unforeseen things that take away the ability to of one party to adhere to a contractual agreement. Usually they refer to "acts of god" like earthquake, storms, etc, but also to strikes and civil unrest.

A successful argument for a frustrsted contract would let the WICB off its breach of obligations. I guess the key of such an argument would be just how much the players threat to strike was real.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby Dr Cricket » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:29 pm

sussexpob wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:The withdrawal from the tour of India will be a set back for WICB. BCCI has a reason to sue WICB as Indian series generate huge revenue rights in terms of broadcasters contracts. I guess the broadcasters would need to be paid back proportionate contract money which is lost revenue for both the broadcasters as well as BCCI. Without any series involving India, the chances of WICB improving their financial situation is less. BCCI will allow West Indies T20 superstars to play in IPL though. So at least the WI players will not suffer financially for sure. They will get the best salary for their specialized skills.




Pretty sure under ICC regulations, all agreements are made under the laws of English courts, and therefore the WICB should be able to argue the contract is frustrated due to "Force Majeure". Regardless of the reasons why or the politics behind it, the WICB could not execute the tour due to the strike action being threatened by the players, and that was a decision that was outside of their control.


WICB might be able to do that in Court but very unlikely it would get to that stage considering BCCI would find other ways to get the money back from WICB.

I believe BCCI can ask ICC to ban WICB, Take away all ICC funding and give it to BCCI not sure their is a loophole in these two option.

Adi got a feeling that BCCI are under pressure here to actually have a home series from broadcaster and sponsors.
BCCI were pretty much the ones doing all the work WICB should have been doing IE Begging to the players, Talking to them, Trying to organize meeting between players and WICB officials and even offered paying the players the difference for this tour.

BCCI as a very valid reason to punish WICB here.
Although I wouldn't bankrupt WICB if I were in charge of BCCI.
I would probably use my power to get rid of most people in charge of WICB, Cancel the 2016 tour and probably charge $10 Million in 2017 when India tours so WICB don't get the full financial benefit of india visit in the first tour.

Just so annoying that India has to wait so long for a test match at home, people in india are getting desperate for it now.
You can actually sense the broadcaster, Sponsors, Fans and even BCCI all wanting it now.

If you think about it and the Tendulkar series didn't happen in 2013 and the 2014 cancellation happened it would be 3 yrs between the last test against Australia and the next one against SA which would be crazy considering India would have played 16 away test matches in a row.

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby meninblue » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:19 pm

sussexpob wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:The withdrawal from the tour of India will be a set back for WICB. BCCI has a reason to sue WICB as Indian series generate huge revenue rights in terms of broadcasters contracts. I guess the broadcasters would need to be paid back proportionate contract money which is lost revenue for both the broadcasters as well as BCCI. Without any series involving India, the chances of WICB improving their financial situation is less. BCCI will allow West Indies T20 superstars to play in IPL though. So at least the WI players will not suffer financially for sure. They will get the best salary for their specialized skills.




Pretty sure under ICC regulations, all agreements are made under the laws of English courts, and therefore the WICB should be able to argue the contract is frustrated due to "Force Majeure". Regardless of the reasons why or the politics behind it, the WICB could not execute the tour due to the strike action being threatened by the players, and that was a decision that was outside of their control.


I dont know what is "Force Majeure" so i cannot reply properly. Still from whatever context i understand, BCCI will sue them (WICB) as they have stated iirc. Like you say and i agree that WICB has the to defend themselves. It is nothing more than my personal guess that BCCI will sue for lost revenue/unfullfilled contract. The outcome of the litigation we cannot tell now as to which side will win or lose in court.


Force Majeure means "unavoidable accident" in Latin, and is usually put in contracts to account for unforeseen things that take away the ability to of one party to adhere to a contractual agreement. Usually they refer to "acts of god" like earthquake, storms, etc, but also to strikes and civil unrest.

A successful argument for a frustrsted contract would let the WICB off its breach of obligations. I guess the key of such an argument would be just how much the players threat to strike was real.


Thanks for the meaning. In this context i take it "Force Majeure" means strike. imo that is a crucial and valid defense point from WICB's perspective.

As far as threat being real or not, i feel the threat by WI cricketers to quit tour is itself enough circumstance for WICB to act according to the threat. It seems that BCCI are right to claim damages, WICB are right to defend saying they acted as per the threat and WI cricketers will defend against WICB on basis of some payment related issues in their signed agreements to threat withdrawal. Whatever the outcome in court, BCCI will influence WI cricket a lot as it is very powerful body even in the new "Top 3 ICC". I guess that BCCI will react strongly against this withdrawal. It may take many many years to make them forget about differences with WICB.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby meninblue » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:32 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:The withdrawal from the tour of India will be a set back for WICB. BCCI has a reason to sue WICB as Indian series generate huge revenue rights in terms of broadcasters contracts. I guess the broadcasters would need to be paid back proportionate contract money which is lost revenue for both the broadcasters as well as BCCI. Without any series involving India, the chances of WICB improving their financial situation is less. BCCI will allow West Indies T20 superstars to play in IPL though. So at least the WI players will not suffer financially for sure. They will get the best salary for their specialized skills.




Pretty sure under ICC regulations, all agreements are made under the laws of English courts, and therefore the WICB should be able to argue the contract is frustrated due to "Force Majeure". Regardless of the reasons why or the politics behind it, the WICB could not execute the tour due to the strike action being threatened by the players, and that was a decision that was outside of their control.


WICB might be able to do that in Court but very unlikely it would get to that stage considering BCCI would find other ways to get the money back from WICB.

I believe BCCI can ask ICC to ban WICB, Take away all ICC funding and give it to BCCI not sure their is a loophole in these two option.

Adi got a feeling that BCCI are under pressure here to actually have a home series from broadcaster and sponsors.

BCCI were pretty much the ones doing all the work WICB should have been doing IE Begging to the players, Talking to them, Trying to organize meeting between players and WICB officials and even offered paying the players the difference for this tour.

BCCI as a very valid reason to punish WICB here.
Although I wouldn't bankrupt WICB if I were in charge of BCCI.
I would probably use my power to get rid of most people in charge of WICB, Cancel the 2016 tour and probably charge $10 Million in 2017 when India tours so WICB don't get the full financial benefit of india visit in the first tour.

Just so annoying that India has to wait so long for a test match at home, people in india are getting desperate for it now.
You can actually sense the broadcaster, Sponsors, Fans and even BCCI all wanting it now.

If you think about it and the Tendulkar series didn't happen in 2013 and the 2014 cancellation happened it would be 3 yrs between the last test against Australia and the next one against SA which would be crazy considering India would have played 16 away test matches in a row.


Bhavesh, BCCI indeed have huge revenue contracts with broadcasters who in turn earn on advertisements etc between overs and innings. The advertisers are expected to claim for repayment for failure to show adds during the prime time i.e during cricket match. BCCI is already facing a 10% loss in revenue due to the advertisers opting for adds display in other tournaments like Kabaddi league etc. So they will not want to disappoint the sponsors (advertisers) like Pepsi/Reliance/LG/Micromax as well as broadcasters who earn lot by selling prime spot adds.

India had financially helped WICB a lot in 2007 somewhere before or after the 2007 WC in WI. So i am surprised that WICB did this to BCCI. Of course we do not know what politics are being played in this matter and if there was any who played it. Not simple as it appears.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:59 am

The future of the West Indies might just rely on how strong their claim for Force Majeure is, because as this article shows, the WICB faces potential bankruptcy otherwise:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/co ... 92083.html

The WICB is one of those boards just struggling to exist. They made a net loss last financial year. If India refuses to tour, then they will fare even worse financially in the years to come. If the BCCI sues them, successfully, for US$60m, then where is the WICB going to find the money? What will happen to the West Indies then? This is not a football club, like Rangers, where the will should be there to form a new company. I doubt there will be a will to form a new West Indies if the BCCI successfully winds up the WICB....

http://www.windiesfans.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=50

"Representing the players who were on the West Indies Squad to India (with the exception of Marlon Samuels) was attorney Ralph Thorne QC. Thorne also represented the interests of Chris Gayle, Sunil Narine and Lendl Simmons. Also in attendance were players Andre Russell and Jason Holder."
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