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Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:21 pmby Durhamfootman
I remember a TV programme about the all rounders of that generation. It included an interview with Richard Hadlee, who talked about the rivalry between them, and stated that all of them would get back to the dressing room and immediately check on what the others had done in their matches.
the programme then cut to Botham who on hearing what Hadlee had had to say on the subject of rivalry, burst out laughing at the thought of checking to see what the others were up to. Clearly though, Hadlee did take it that seriously, and just imagined that the others did too.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:24 pmby sussexpob
There is a certain romance to that type of mercurial person who is capable of greatness but never consistent. But I always found the consistency the hard part.
I feel more negativity towards people like Botham, simply because you tend to think what could he have been with a better attitude.... but I guess in some cases, the attitude is also the reason for the ups
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:26 pmby Durhamfootman
Arthur Crabtree wrote:Reply to Durham...
Short flash of light with Beefy though. And a lot of fade out.
no doubt
thank goodness for that flash of light, though. Imagine a world of stats, formula's, training regimes, shaving off the percentages and ask yourself how interesting the game of cricket would be that focussed exclusively on those worthy things
alternatively remember the Flower/Moores years, before reaching for the television 'off' switch, or (in my case) cancelling your sky sports subscription
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:27 pmby sussexpob
Durhamfootman wrote:Arthur Crabtree wrote:Reply to Durham...
Short flash of light with Beefy though. And a lot of fade out.
no doubt
thank goodness for that flash of light, though. Imagine a world of stats, formula's, training regimes, shaving off the percentages and ask yourself how interesting the game of cricket would be that focussed exclusively on those worthy things
alternatively remember the Flower/Moores years, before reaching for the television 'off' switch, or (in my case) cancelling your sky sports subscription
Would a Footman team prepare for tests with shagging a few groupies and a "doobie" then?
Tbf, I rather that the mung bean curry
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:30 pmby Durhamfootman
I think it was Brearley who said that he tolerated the drunkeness and the hangovers, because Botham would turn up on days 2, 3, 4 and (where necessary) 5, feeling like death, and would then proceed to work his socks off all day to prove to everyone that it wasn't affecting his performance
perhaps that was why Brearley could manage him, where many other coaches/captains wouldn't be able to
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:32 pmby Arthur Crabtree
sussexpob wrote:Arthur Crabtree wrote:Great post.
I did actually think of abandoning stats for this position, because it's hard to pin down. But I would have got similar 15 to this anyway. Though I'd have found room for Tony Greig.
It's a good comparison between Waugh and Botham at six. When in a fix, Botham would gamble, he was the whole show, and it was unforgettable when it came off. Waugh had an aura, he would work with his partner and break you slowly. Of course, he was a much better batter, but Botham has 380 Test wickets, so it depends what you want. With Gilchrist at seven, he's a number six anyway.
There are examples either way, but a bowling 6 who averages in the low 30s for me simply leads to an inefficiency in a team. Assuming an innings lasts 100 overs, id want my pacers capable of bowling 25 overs in that. The fifth bowler may contribute a handful here, a handful there, but if needed to join a front line attack my guess would be you are always in trouble. The 5th bowler for me is someone who can partnership break, or send down a few here and there. Its not something that I would be picking in my line up unless my top six literally had nothing in terms of part time options, which is exceedingly rare.
Id rather someone like Botham at 8 in the top of my specialists contributing slightly less with the bat (he wsa the type of batter who will still be out long before the 11 comes in) and have a specialist at 6.
The Waugh brothers are perfect examples. Both were capable of turning their arm and bowling if the 4 specialists fail.
In a normal side, someone who averages mid thirties batting at six is absolutely fine, because at any one time, the sixth best batter available won't be better than that. I suppose this artificial team does the all rounder no favours, because he is going to be up against a batting great, which would hardly ever happen. Even so, I can see the attraction, after a quality top five, of having a a dash of magic at six, like Imran or Botham (surely Imran was a better all rounder?). I picked Waugh because he was relentless, and he would take the competitiveness of the side up a notch. And he was crucial in turning a great Aussie team into a side that challenged the best in any era. But I do feel a Botham/Imran would elevate the side in a different way.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:37 pmby Durhamfootman
Imran would be too intense for a 'greats' XI. I'm trying to imagine the ego's clashing..... especially if he was made captain (not an unrealistic possibility)
Botham would bring out the best in the rest, without letting them get too precious
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:38 pmby Arthur Crabtree
Durhamfootman wrote:I think it was Brearley who said that he tolerated the drunkeness and the hangovers, because Botham would turn up on days 2, 3, 4 and (where necessary) 5, feeling like death, and would then proceed to work his socks off all day to prove to everyone that it wasn't affecting his performance
perhaps that was why Brearley could manage him, where many other coaches/captains wouldn't be able to
And Brears had him when he was younger, and his body would snap back. I guess, in picking Botham, you're picking him from 77-81. And he was a formidable player. Yet somehow, a player of similar talent, Imran Khan, managed to influence his side for a decade, and changed the whole for the better. My impression was that Botham eventually dragged the whole down with him.
Which is unforgivably negative. He was a great talent, and a fine player, and the memories of his best days sustained England fans for nearly twenty years after they happened.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:05 pmby Arthur Crabtree
Durhamfootman wrote:Arthur Crabtree wrote:Reply to Durham...
Short flash of light with Beefy though. And a lot of fade out.
no doubt
thank goodness for that flash of light, though. Imagine a world of stats, formula's, training regimes, shaving off the percentages and ask yourself how interesting the game of cricket would be that focussed exclusively on those worthy things
alternatively remember the Flower/Moores years, before reaching for the television 'off' switch, or (in my case) cancelling your sky sports subscription
Better point than any I can make.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:01 amby Dr Cricket
Went for imran khan, was the best out of the 4 key all rounders.
If I wanted a batsman would have went for Laxman out of all the batsman.
Didn't actually see Steve waugh and frankly speaking the way he bats looks ugly.
did want to vote for De villiers.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:53 amby braveneutral
This one is difficult given the variety of options.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:56 amby Arthur Crabtree
Tough being a selector.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:59 amby braveneutral
Yep going to be difficult to be tactical for me too as I don't really want either of the early contenders.
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:01 amby Arthur Crabtree
Put Freddie into a three way lead?
Re: CMS Test XI of last 50 Years- Number 6.
Posted:
Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:01 amby Arthur Crabtree
Or VVS?