Is Ravichandran Ashwin an all time test great?

[andy]

500 test wickets, multiple test centuries and countless match winning performances....yes its clear he is stronger at home, but for you is Ravi Ashwin an all time test great?

[sussexpob]

People tend to put additional context into modern day achievements, while not doing the same to legends of the past. Ashwin for instance does not average that much more than Murali away (28 to 30), and Ashwin never played a hapless Zimbabwe or Bangladesh side that padded those stats out very favourably. Warne had poor records in India and West Indies (where he only played in the 90s), which were the toughest tours of his day.....

Does anyone survive as a legend when we boil everything down to the nth degree? You could, for instance, say that the 80s Windies fast bowlers who standout as the best averaging bowlers away from home in history.... took a lot of wickets in England, where it would be pretty dubious to say it was an "away" test match seeing as though they all played county cricket most of their careers. Very few bowlers in the modern age match their away and home performances.

Its rare. Averaging 20 home, 30 away is not that much of a statistical outlier. Loads of bowlers have similar career patterns.... Is Jimmy Anderson not an England legend? His away bowling isnt that great... For me, you ask a simple question.... in his home conditions, who can compare. Very few in history of the game can... very, very few.

Out of spinners, Laker and Lock average slightly better..... you then look at who they played against, and their averages are really boosted by playing a SA team that hadn't won a series in over 30 years, and a NZ team who hadn;t won a series...well....ever (and in one case, not a test match either). Murali... well ok, but we face the same problem... taking bags of wickets against two hapless sides, one of which was so hapless they were stripped of their test status.

Jadeja...

No one else.

For me its not even a debate.... facing Ashwin in India is all time tough stuff. Very, very few players can compare in history of the game.... to me, that makes him a great

[sussexpob]

You asked a similar question about Jadeja on the Indian Cricket Thread.... and the answer is the same.

Jadeja averaged 20 with the ball, and 40 with the bat in India.....and that average is maintained over a lot longer than others above him on the list of home wickets, bar Murali, but see above. Jadeja would probably have the best home average ever with 12 additional tests v Zimbabwe circa 2004-05 added.

If you wanted to put together an all time XI of players based on the output you'd expect in their most favoured conditions, Jadeja in India is the second name I put on the team sheet after Bradman playing anywhere ..... as a bowler alone, his figures are almost the best ever, and I would argue context of opposition and conditions make his acheivements more impressive than the others (for instance, IPL means world class players have exposure to Indian pitches and is somewhat a second home for a lot... India have a bias to playing top sides, whereas int he past test series were balanced more between everyone playing in a 4-5 year cycle.... not as many free wickets, and against far more experienced players)....

And then you add the batting and level of fielding, and its conversation over..... some players might average 1 run less per wicket, but return 70 runs less a test with the bat.

Unquestionably a legend