Eng Test tour of Pak, Dec 1-21

[sussexpob]

What the hell was the slips doing there? Easy catch for the win, both backed off and let it sail by

[bigfluffylemon]

Blimey. Well, the declaration was dodgy as hell, but its defenders were claiming, rightly, that it's brought a result into the game. Still a strong chance of a draw thanks to the light, but England one away now and these Pakistan bats don't have much in their record to suggest they would hold out for long.

Highest match aggregate now for a 5 day test. For there to be even a possible result is pretty amazing.

[sussexpob]

Pakistan wasting time here.

[sussexpob]

Light meter is out... ironically, that will waste a few minutes as they measure it

[sussexpob]

Not sure why they took the new ball, the old ball is going everywhere on reverse

Getting visibly dark now. Surely this has to be the last over of pace allowed?

[sussexpob]

Why are they waiting for ultra edge, he's been caught either way. If this is not out, its wasted a hell of a lot of time.

Looks nailed on thought

ITs so dark the Short Leg camera is blurred. Shouldnt really be playing in this light, its ridiculous

[bigfluffylemon]

Modded me, they've done it.

First win away v Pakistan in 20 years. Some achievement.

[Durhamfootman]

spectacular win

not one of this England team have ever played a test in Pakistan, not even Anderson who has been around for about a thousand years.

506 runs on first day, a test record
921 runs scored at 6.73 an over, the fastest rate of any team batting twice in test history
an ultra aggressive declaration fully vindicated.

without all of those factors, this win would not have been possible, so enormous credit to the team.

when I think of how annoyed I got over many years of ultra cautious declarations, it's refreshing to see something different. Cook and Root wouldn't ever have declared in this match until the loss had been completely taken out of the equation and even then they'd have wanted another 100 run cushion on top of that.

2nd test only 3 days away, which seems an extraordinarily fast turnaround

[Arthur Crabtree]

Gamble pays off. Maybe remember this one when the gamble doesn't pay. Took a lot of chutzpah to pull that off.

[sussexpob]

Not sure you can say the decision was vindicated. If I bet my life savings on rolling a six on a dice, I am an idiot regardless of what I roll. Make that decision time and time again, you lose more than win.

Celebrate what was an excellent effort, but the decision behind it is still barmy.

At 210-5, two set batsman, if that umpire call goes another way Pakistan more than likely win. I still have no idea how Hawkeye decided the ball travelled flat after hitting. Going to take a lot to convince me a batter getting a stride down the pitch, hit on the top of the knee roll is out LBW.

[The Professor]

remarkable triumph It is actually much better than it appears on paper, which is pretty damn fantastic. among the very greatest ever.

Happy to have been absolutely wrong about the assertion. Although I thought the overall sentiment was admirable, I felt the mathematical timing was off.

I, however, was in error.

[yuppie]

well played England

I think this result will be talked about for a long time. Agree though that this time the risk payed of but most times i dont think it would.

[bigfluffylemon]

That was, on reflection, an extraordinary test match and result. The highest runs aggregate for a non-timeless test, the highest runs aggregate for any match with a result, highest first innings aggregate with a result, 7 centuries, curtailed overs due to the light - all test match logic says that should have been a draw. That England manufactured a result and a thrilling last day from what seemed to be a debacle of a pitch is highly commendable. They realised that with the time needed to take 10 wickets, the early declaration was the only chance of a result. Sure, it was brave to the point of foolhardy, and could easily have backfired. But they knew that, that there was a strong chance of a loss, and were willing to take that risk anyway. There's a lot to like about that. Even if we'd lost, I'd much rather we lost pushing hard in this sort of way than the sort of meek collapses and surrenders that we got so used to seeing in the last few years.

One thing that has gone unremarked on in amidst all the run fest is that England actually managed to take 20 wickets on this pitch. That's no mean achievement. Anderson and Robinson were outstanding in the second innings. England have so often struggled in this sort of environment, but the pace they played the game at, and the pressure they created on the Pakistan batsmen with the runs and scoring pace gave their bowlers the time to create those chances.

I do think England are capable of winning the Ashes with this sort of cricket. That's very different from saying I think they will win, but they will win games playing this way, and if they can string together something like Trent Bridge or Rawalpindi against Australia, they might be able to take them too.

Perhaps I'm getting carried away, but if England can take this sort of attitude and execution, and combine it with maturity to go hard at the right time, we could be seeing the start of something very special. Of course, it could collapse in a heap, and they will definitely lose matches playing this way, but for now they are winning, and after the last few years, I'm enjoying it.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Great win. If there is a but, it's that for me, ultra-audacious wins might deliver a boost to the game and the team, in the short term, but in time it looks more like the game doesn't matter as much. A Test going nowhere gains interest from a throw of the dice. But if the game can acceptably be won on the throw of a dice, then it is ultimately diminished.

After such a startling win, it's hard to imagine England haven't turned a corner. Except Anderson was a key performer, and he is just another game nearer retirement. The spinners aren't performing like matchwinners. And it's far too soon to say the batters are looking a good bet, especially as they played in a style that's probably not sustainable. Because of the nature of the pitch.

[alfie]

Have to say I am a little bemused by some of the comments I am reading here in the aftermath of this remarkable result. It would be unusual for any English success to meet with unalloyed satisfaction - and not just on here - but I'd have thought this one would have had a few less caveats attached ; even from those who had been convinced in advance it was impossible.

I totally understand people questioning (at the time) the apparently extremely generous declaration which made the result possible : indeed I myself felt it would have been more advisable to bat on for a few minutes after tea to increase the time pressure on any Pakistan victory push and enable attacking fields to be deployed for longer in pursuit of the win. But as the game was actually finished with something like ten minutes or so of play probable I have to admit that assessment was totally wrong and Ben Stokes got his timing absolutely right. Can't imagine what more you have to do for people to admit aggressive tactics , in this case , were completely vindicated ?

Was there some luck involved ? Of course there was - generally is in any sport involving multiple players attempting to manipulate a ball of some kind. But in this case (and I watched just about every ball) any luck going around pretty well evened out. For any "close" lbw - and tailender Rauf was the only one that went to umpires call - there was a mishit that fell fortunately safe ; some great catches and a couple of tricky but well catchable chances , or run outs , missed. On another day , things might have gone otherwise ; but they didn't. And that is why we watch sport is it not ? To see what actually happens instead of reading dubious probability stats on cricket websites which purport to tell us what ought to have happened.

Comparisons of the risk/reward calculation involved in declaration timing with dice throwing are simply not valid. One is pure chance ; the other is based on an assessment of the relative strengths of the two teams , judgement of the playing conditions , and estimates of the likely time and scoring rates necessary to obtain a result. Obviously a subjective one ; but one that professional sportsmen appointed to lead their team are paid to get right . Clearly England took into account several factors : that the previous highest ever chase in Pakistan was 314 and no other had come close ; that a new ball would be available in the last hour of play ; that there would likely be a fairly significant period in which reverse swing would be effective during the last day - and came to the conclusion that the risk taken by an "early" close was outweighed by the chance of success.

And so it came to pass. And quite frankly anyone who still maintains that the original decision was actually a bad one redeemed only by good fortune is simply
wrong and doesn't want to admit it.

As to the larger issue of whether too bold an approach is actually good for the game (or the team , if you assume the chances are a similar approach will probably backfire at times in the future) I reckon that is a debate we can have ; but probably one that will be better informed when we have seen a few more examples - as I imagine we will. Maybe not just from England . Gary Sobers wore a lot of flak many years ago when his declaration gifted England a series levelling win - but West Indies cricket actually ticked on rather well over the next few years , as I recall...