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Overton J?

can bowl fast and can bat. England surely won't be able to resist

Wouldn't be surprised to see J Overton on the Pakistan trip. Of course he , like Wood , is just coming back from injury - but he hasn't been out of action so long ; and arguably deserves another shot at Tests. Might lower that Test batting average of his if he does get a game though

Wonder how many seamers they will take to Pakistan ? If the pitches are anything like the ones in the recent Australian tour they might wear out one or two over the course of three matches.

Robinson , Anderson , Potts , (Suggestions Broad will want to give this one a miss for family reasons) : Wood , Overton ?

No idea about next northern summer as the injury list will presumably be rearranged a bit by then ; but looking at the number that have been side-lined this year you'd be unwise to put money on any combination in advance...

Since Mark Wood made his Test debut these are the averages abroad

Anderson 91 at 25.05
Wood 47 at 25.36
Robinson 11 at 25.54
Broad 95 at 27.85
Stokes 79 at 30.12
Archer 12 at 41.50
Curran 21 at 42.33
Overton 11 at 44.09
Woakes 31 at 51.88

Probably take 5 fast bowlers and 3 spinners to Pakistan. Broad not sure if he is going. Anderson, Wood, Robinson, Stokes and Potts? Rashid and Ali are not sure they want to go.

Someone might do well the the T20s and get chosen.

Slipstream wrote:Since Mark Wood made his Test debut these are the averages abroad

I'm interested to see the breakdown of Wood's away record in games that matter compared to dead rubber tests.

Because by memory, he's bowled badly in any games the series are still in question, and turns into peak Wasim Akram when its a glorified friendly that means nothing.

Crunching the numbers....

Average of 42 away in live series....
Average of 41 in home series live...

In his career, his three best innings bowling and 3 best match figures have came in the only 3 games he's played that were dead rubbers. In 45 innings he's played in live series, he's never taken more than 3 wickets in an innings ever. He's played in an era of falling test score and helpful pitches, so some of these averages especially at home are abnormally bad.

Very few cricketers have been as useless as Wood has in his career. When it matters, he's performed terribly.

I am surprised.

I think England want someone quick as their 3rd bowler. Wood, Archer, Mahmood, Stone (last two not really as quick). They will leave out Broad or Anderson to get a quick in. Now Robinson has cemented his place I can see those two rotating to fit in Wood.

Australia don't bother with speed, just pick good bowlers. New Zealand and South Africa seem go with variety. I doubt if they say 'we must have someone fast'.

sussexpob wrote:Crunching the numbers....

Average of 42 away in live series....
Average of 41 in home series live...

In his career, his three best innings bowling and 3 best match figures have came in the only 3 games he's played that were dead rubbers. In 45 innings he's played in live series, he's never taken more than 3 wickets in an innings ever. He's played in an era of falling test score and helpful pitches, so some of these averages especially at home are abnormally bad.

Very few cricketers have been as useless as Wood has in his career. When it matters, he's performed terribly.

Well that is largely nonsense , of course. Wood is no superstar ; but to suggest he never performs in "live" situations is simply wrong. Just for starters , the 4th Test against SA in January 2020 was hardly a dead rubber as the series stood at 2-1 to England before it - and Wood's best ever match performance in that game went a long way to giving England a 3-1 series win. If it comes to that , Wood didn't play in the first two games on that tour (1-all) but came in for the third and contributed a quite useful 3/32 in helping England to a win.
His other two five plus hauls indeed came after a series was lost ; but it is hard to blame Wood for that as he didn't play in the two losses in West Indies before his 5 wicket effort in Gros Inlet was very significant in getting England their "consolation" win.

It would be more accurate to say that his record in England is pretty poor. But he has done rather well in SA , Australia , UAE , West Indies - all small samples true ; but again , that has a lot to do with injuries that have meant he has rarely been able to string a solid sequence of games together.

I am certainly not touting him for the Hall of Fame And not even sure I would pick him (especially in home Tests) , depending on who else is available. But "useless" ? That sounds more like someone having a shot at a cricketer they just don't like...

Feel free to disagree with the point Alfie, but to dismiss it as "nonsense" even when taking account the error on my part for considering the SA test match a dead rubber (indeed, it was not) leaves only really one worthwhile contribution in matches that have mattered. I think it goes without saying that there is a certain drop in intensity in games a series is decided, and while it could be random patterns, it seems pretty clear he doesn't perform in matches that matter over his career with any regularity.

Of course, he also cant be blamed for not being around in games England have lost, but my point had nothing to do with the team, only his individual performance.

When you look how many overs some bowlers had to go through in some recent tests in Pakistan, especially in Rawalpindi, a near 33 tearaway quick with an injury history that fills 4 pages to me provides a certain risk for the team. Can Wood be trusted to bowl 30 overs of full pace on a dead wicket? History says no

Certainly there is much talk about rapid bowlers and spinners being the order of the day for a Pakistan tour, but England have few resources of either, so I have no idea how they'll go. England are desperate to have Woody available for the T20 WC, if I understand it correctly, so whether they would risk him picking up an injury toiling away on Pakistan test pitches remains to be seen.

It's been such a long time since the last tour, that I'm struggling to remember, but doesn't it get dark really early and really quickly in Pakistan? I seem to remember that they can't start early either because of excessive dew, so it may be very difficult to find the time to get a result in anyway, as long as England don't throw it away with the bat. I have it in my head that you lose at least an hour every day.... something in the back of mind seems to recall me watching play ending, day after day, about 5 mins after the umpires called for a drinks break and thinking how utterly pointless that break was. With the loss of an hour and no possible chance of making it up, England will be lucky if they can fit in 50 overs in a day...... even with two spinners operating in tandem

Seem to remember for a brief period Pakistan had six x five hour days. Should be able to fit in T20s though.

Surprised they'll play given the huge problems in the country.

Hard to see seven consecutive T20s at two venues as much more than a training exercise.

ah... the test series is after the WC. I hadn't realised that. Makes sense, of course

sussexpob wrote:When you look how many overs some bowlers had to go through in some recent tests in Pakistan, especially in Rawalpindi, a near 33 tearaway quick with an injury history that fills 4 pages to me provides a certain risk for the team. Can Wood be trusted to bowl 30 overs of full pace on a dead wicket? History says no

Well he managed to play 4 out of 5 Tests in Australia 25.4, 19.5, 41.1 and 34.3 at over 90mph. After not bowling with the red ball for six months he could pick up an injury after one Test. Broad and Anderson like long spells. I always thought Broad didn't because Root would give 3 or 4 overs and he didn't seem upset but read the other day he likes long spells to set a batsman up. Stokes can bowl a whole session. Expect to see that in Pakistan.

If England go with two spinners and Stokes as third pace bowler, then Wood would be one of two new ball bowlers. Who knows, that might mean he bowls a lot, or hardly at all. Recently, Indian pace bowlers in India hardly get the ball.

Slipstream wrote:

sussexpob wrote:When you look how many overs some bowlers had to go through in some recent tests in Pakistan, especially in Rawalpindi, a near 33 tearaway quick with an injury history that fills 4 pages to me provides a certain risk for the team. Can Wood be trusted to bowl 30 overs of full pace on a dead wicket? History says no

Well he managed to play 4 out of 5 Tests in Australia 25.4, 19.5, 41.1 and 34.3 at over 90mph

And that period ended with him going to the Windies with questionable fitness, not really bowling in the warm up game, and then breaking down in the first test after 15 odd overs and not playing in any format for half a year (plus). While we can argue about his qualities as a bowler, I dont think there is much discussion about the risks he poses in terms of fitness, especially coming off a massively long injury.

Through the whole of his career its been a couple of matches here, injury, a couple there, injury.... and England can ill afford to drop a bowler mid-test like his last outing, its going to be hard to take wickets with a full complement, I'd imagine one bowler unable to pull his share of overs is a death sentence for the rest.