Ashes 2021-22.

[bigfluffylemon]

I suppose the problem is, who should be captain? Most players are not guaranteed a place, in fact only Root and Stokes are.

it's a dilemma. Root isn't a good captain, he never has been, but Stokes doesn't seem to want it atm and he's never really been tested as a captain domestically anyway.

I have been persuaded by SP's observations regarding team selection over the duration of this entire series. The errors are glaring, the thought processes muddled and inconsistent from captain and coach.

Agree. Sussex is clearly right on this, Silverwood is useless, and I don't think anyone here has offered much in defence of Root as a captain beyond the 'there isn't another good candidate' argument, which is a pretty damn weak one. You'd find someone. And I didn't see anyone on here forecasting anything other than 5-0 or 4-0 with a rain-affected draw in there somewhere (I was the latter, but I can't find where I wrote it down, so you'll have to trust me on that one ).

On the coaching/improving, while there are clearly a lot of problems in that department, especially batting, the circumstances really haven't helped. No warm up games of substance to get used to the bowling and conditions. And once the series started, five back-to-back games. If you find you have a problem, there is simply no opportunity to work on it. With 4-5 days between games, at least one lost to travelling, you've got at best 2-3 days of nets (and probably need some rest in there too) before you're being worked over by Cummins et al again and have a few overs in the middle before you're back in the hutch again wondering where it all went wrong.

I'm not trying to defend anyone here, as opposed to offer some observations and note just how hopeless the decision making has been. Blame covid if we must, but why have we not had more time here, a parallel A tour with players staying in the country to learn and have a pool to draw from, etc., etc.? When there was all the kerfuffle earlier in 2021 about whether the tour would go ahead at all, were they arguing about whether or not England had sufficient practice time or support? No, the players were insisting that they couldn't bear to be separated from their WAGs for six weeks. Try telling that to people who haven't seen their families for two years due to border closures, or people whose jobs takes them away from their families like armed forces personnel, diplomats, etc., etc.. The English BBL players didn't seem to mind being here for 2+ months without their families. I guess if they paycheck is big enough, you can get over it.

As sussex says, no-one in the hierachy, from the players to the coach to the counties seems to have the b*lls to demand better.

[bigfluffylemon]

Interesting article here, on a slightly different topic. We often note Ben Stokes may be the luckiest man in world cricket, given how many let-offs he seems to get. According to this analysis, he's well up there in luck in tests, but the luckiest of all may be Labuschagne
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/stat ... it-1297285

Both Stokes and Labuschagne at least make people pay for errors.

[sussexpob]

On the coaching/improving, while there are clearly a lot of problems in that department, especially batting, the circumstances really haven't helped. No warm up games of substance to get used to the bowling and conditions. And once the series started, five back-to-back games. If you find you have a problem, there is simply no opportunity to work on it. With 4-5 days between games, at least one lost to travelling, you've got at best 2-3 days of nets (and probably need some rest in there too) before you're being worked over by Cummins et al again and have a few overs in the middle before you're back in the hutch again wondering where it all went wrong

Excuse the terrible analogy, but back in my climbing days you could be hit by a range of different circumstances that brings you into physical danger or wrecks your plans - sudden freak weather changes, icefalls, equipment failures... the list of potential failure points is massive. And while you cannot control any of those, you can take every step necessary to limit the impact of any of these arising. In the end, if someone with no emergency supplies, no radio/GPS, no alternative route, inadequate clothing or a lack of technical ability ends up stuck halfway up a mountain and dies after not checking the weather before leaving, can he blame the storm that caused it?

That's the way I look at this England team. There are lots of things out of their control that hamper their ability to be successful, but those things that they can control and have impact on their performance are also a shambles. If England's management and Captain made choices that were sensible and made through the right thought process, they might ride out the storms coming their way - they might equally not, but they can only give themselves the best chance by preparing the best way. At the moment they are giving themselves no chance by approaching the game terribly.

[sussexpob]

Ramprakash views on coaching elite batters might explain a few of the issues the team had when he was playing

Well, as a good indication of the above, we get to the coaching situation for England.

At the start of 2021, England offered Marcus Trescothick the job of elite batting coach. The appointment was announced in March, but had apparently been made before England went to India at the start of the year, with Jonathan Trott going to India instead and the appointment tabled to take place after. Trott had applied for the job, had been deemed not up to the standard, then sent to India to do the job he was apparently incapable of (worth noting Trott was doing the job, so they had essentially decided to demote him).

The reason for the delayed start and sending Trott was made clear when Trescothick took over - he has travel anxiety still, not to the level of crying in departure lounges while being prostrate on the floor before having to board, but in his own words he is only capable after 15 years of professional help with the matter to travel for a week or two max. He stated whole tours or much past this point were not possible. He was never going to go to Australia for the Ashes. He wont be in West Indies next up.

This left England in a weird position for this series. Trott is a batting consultant that works with the Lions, and went to Australia with the Lions as the only batting specialist out of both teams, but is still deemed to be a work in progress and, after being demoted, wasnt deemed good enough to work with the squad. He came back home with the Lions too, leaving England with no batting coach, and a head coach that is a bowling specialist. It flew under the radar, but at one point Adam Hollioake was called in from the Gold Coast to work as an emergency coach, but I think he failed a covid test before travel and the plan was ditched.

In the end, England's batting coaching fell to Ant Botha - a man with a FC average of 20 with the bat, who is a bowling/spin coach at Notts and was originally (from his own announcement) really only supposed to be there to develop his own coaching skills and not having such a high profile. He is not even a senior coach at Notts (they list him as a coaching consultant, below 4 specialist coaches, when the announcement was made). And what ends up happening? Botha ends up being the one who has the batters kangaroo hopping like idiots while practicing their batting. Which explains why this mad exercise was allowed to happen.

England took no specialist/dedicated batting coach on their hardest tour, after 3 consecutive years that rank in their worst 5 batting performances in history....

You cant make that up.

And thats before England apparently dropped 23 chances in the first two tests..... you guessed it. They didnt take a Fielding coach either

[sussexpob]

As Yuppe points out, the Australians have a couple of players who have stated this series that technical blips that have been pointed out to them have been corrected, with good results. The most enlightening one was Ponting on commentary being asked of his views on Green, and then stating he thought his trigger movement was wrong and it was something common with players who had previous problems with lbw's that they tend to line up to defend on their legs, but they are too leg side and dont cover their off stump.

Green was made known of the comments, and between the 3rd and 4th test worked on this.... he made two significant scores straight away with the change.

And yet 30 tests in, and Rory Burns has that ridiculous trigger movement with his head bouncy around all over the place. Maybe England should offer Punter a job....he's done more in 5 minutes that England's coaches have managed in 5 years.

[westoelad]

I assumed Graham Thorpe was the batting coach; if not,what was the point of him being there. Anyhow,if he was he was pretty ineffectual. Ponting would undoubtedly be an excellent choice as a batting coach but his comments about Green show that there's no need for a hands on coach. I'm sure Ponting could sit down now and write a report identifying and rectifying the weaknesses of every one of England's batsmen. Whether they heed and act upon that advice is another matter.
Ponting and Sangakkar gave a batting masterclass on Sky a few years back; it was absolutely riveting.

[bigfluffylemon]

On the coaching/improving, while there are clearly a lot of problems in that department, especially batting, the circumstances really haven't helped. No warm up games of substance to get used to the bowling and conditions. And once the series started, five back-to-back games. If you find you have a problem, there is simply no opportunity to work on it. With 4-5 days between games, at least one lost to travelling, you've got at best 2-3 days of nets (and probably need some rest in there too) before you're being worked over by Cummins et al again and have a few overs in the middle before you're back in the hutch again wondering where it all went wrong

Excuse the terrible analogy, but back in my climbing days you could be hit by a range of different circumstances that brings you into physical danger or wrecks your plans - sudden freak weather changes, icefalls, equipment failures... the list of potential failure points is massive. And while you cannot control any of those, you can take every step necessary to limit the impact of any of these arising. In the end, if someone with no emergency supplies, no radio/GPS, no alternative route, inadequate clothing or a lack of technical ability ends up stuck halfway up a mountain and dies after not checking the weather before leaving, can he blame the storm that caused it?

That's the way I look at this England team. There are lots of things out of their control that hamper their ability to be successful, but those things that they can control and have impact on their performance are also a shambles. If England's management and Captain made choices that were sensible and made through the right thought process, they might ride out the storms coming their way - they might equally not, but they can only give themselves the best chance by preparing the best way. At the moment they are giving themselves no chance by approaching the game terribly.

Well, quite. As I said, I'm not trying to defend anyone. They agreed to tour under stupid conditions that gave them minimal chance to be competitive.

And some of the stuff that is coming out about coaching beggars belief.

And now reports of police breaking up a p1ss-up, drinking culture in the England camp, etc.

[sussexpob]

I assumed Graham Thorpe was the batting coach; if not,what was the point of him being there

Its a common mistake printed in papers, but his role is Assistant Coach.

Giles created and expanded the role in 2019 based on the idea that one Head Coach could no longer be expected to cover all formats/yearly schedule. So, as an example, Thorpe went out to Australia with the test specialists in November as an in situ Head Coach to oversee and manage the squad, and when Silverwood was also in quarantine he took over. Think it was in NZ (I could be corrected) last time, Silverwood came home early and Thorpe was Head Coach in one or two tests of that tour too. He is basically there as a support to Silverwood.

Collingwood is also in the same role, and he piloted out to the Caribbean before the tests ended to oversee the T20 tour of West Indies. There is supposed to be no difference in both assistants, but Thorpe seems to take control of the test side, Collingwood the ODIs. Silverwood gets rest inbetween/at the start of tours, and the assistants manage it until he arrives.

Ironic that Giles decided the Head Coach had too much to do, then gave him 4 other peoples jobs a year later

Based on what Thorpe says, he doesnt do any direct coaching. He referenced "talking" to Rory Burns about his technique recently, but made it sound like it was informal conversations.

Based on what has been reported, Ant Botha has been leading all net sessions and handling the hands on batting coaching .

[sussexpob]

And now reports of police breaking up a p1ss-up, drinking culture in the England camp, etc.

Just a few lads having a few beers and being a bit loud, all apparently conforming in a friendly manner when asked to call it a night by police (not seen the video, but thats how its reported). Wasnt only English players too, it says 3 Aussies and 2 English players, and an English coach. Some reports say Graham Thorpe was smoking a cigar in a non-designated area, but was unaware of Tasmania's more strict smoking rules in comparison to the rest of Australia, and nothing was made of it.

Personally I think its pretty great England and Australia players can have a night out together and get along after a long hard series. To me this is a nothing story and isnt worth dwelling on. No one ended halfway towards NZ on a pedalo.

[sussexpob]

More potentially shocking, although no details have been given about it, is the Guardian saying one of Giles' first investigations for his post-series report concerns the large amount of drinking that the England backroom staff/coaches have been apparently enjoying on the tour. Apparently the drinking culture with the coaches is a worry that might need addressing.

This could be rubbish of course

[bigfluffylemon]

More potentially shocking, although no details have been given about it, is the Guardian saying one of Giles' first investigations for his post-series report concerns the large amount of drinking that the England backroom staff/coaches have been apparently enjoying on the tour. Apparently the drinking culture with the coaches is a worry that might need addressing.

This could be rubbish of course

That is more what I was worried about. The party seems to be symptomatic of the reported culture. If it was a one-off post series celebration, fine.

[bigfluffylemon]

The coaching, or complete lack thereof, is evident in how players progress once they enter the England team. Or more accurately, fail to.

Regardless of the failings or not of county cricket, when a player who has performed well there goes into the England set-up, they should be benefitting from elite coaching and further improving. How many players in the last ten years have actually got better, or even maintained their capability, under the England management? Anderson and Stokes is about it. Maybe Broad. Not a single specialist batsmen. They've all either not been up to it and dropped, or started with some potential and reasonable scores, and have got worse and worse. Look at Ollie Pope, Sam Robson, Nick Compton, Gary Ballance and however many other promising players who made hundreds early in their careers and then fell away after more and more time with England.

And any bowler who shows the slightest hint of being any good is immediately overworked and has their action remodelled until they break down.

Not to mention the bloody hopeless management of spinners. Anyone who doesn't immediately arrive and take wickets like the second incarnation of Warne is messed around with selection, when they bowl, etc. and never allowed to settle or develop. Jack Leach actually has a pretty comparable, if not better, record than Lyon at this stage in their respective careers, but Australia stuck by Lyon through good and bad, while Leach has been screwed around so much it's a wonder he remembers which team he's on.

[bigfluffylemon]

I just looked at his record again. Why was Sam Robson dropped? He played 7 tests, century and fifty in the first 3, then a couple of bad tests towards the end of the 2014 India series on bowler-friendly wickets when England won by an innings twice so he didn't get to bat much (and even then had several decent opening partnerships with Cook), and England won convincingly.

Were we just in search of the next Strauss/Cook so anyone who didn't immediately average 45+ wasn't good enough? Compared to what we have now, his performance over those first few tests seemed quite reasonable, but he was binned and never looked at again, while the revolving door of openers continued and Robson continued to perform decently enough for Middlesex (800+ runs at an average of 35-45 all but one season since 2016).

[Arthur Crabtree]

Robson's technique was so univerally panned by commentators and journaists that he didn't have to fail much to get dropped. By the time it happened it seemed everyone was anticipating him going. Also, as you say, it was just after Strauss retired and expectations were higher. Now, if someone averages 30 they'll get a good run.

[sussexpob]

Robson's technique was so univerally panned by commentators and journaists that he didn't have to fail much to get dropped. By the time it happened it seemed everyone was anticipating him going. Also, as you say, it was just after Strauss retired and expectations were higher. Now, if someone averages 30 they'll get a good run.

I remember Boycott going on one of his rants about Robson; "He seems to struggle when the ball is on that perfect length, just outside off in the corridor of uncertainty, if the ball moves in the air or off the pitch".

Jarred Kimber summed it up perfectly when he gave the Aussie perspective on the issues..... he said it appears that English commentators have worked out Robson struggles with perfect test match bowling.... and who would of thought that?