Ashes 2021-22.

[sussexpob]

There's reverse swing though. But with the no spit laws, plus close scrutiny, maybe that won't be a factor. But it usually is.

On the contrary, for the last 15 odd years one of the most common criticisms of the team from Aussie pundits has been their inability to reverse swing the ball when other teams have managed to, and also a lot of criticisms about how the batters respond to it (which I believe is very badly, mostly because they are never confronted with it until facing top class bowling - I remember reading for instance even in his batting zenith, Michael Clarke turned to jelly when reverse came into the game).

Around the mid 2010s, it was a constant thing used to bash the bowlers when Australia didnt do well. Tours like Pakistan in UAE (around 2015 or 2016 IIRC) where the Aussie bowlers got slaughtered for their inability to find reverse on flat pitches while the home team seamers did. Same with tours to India, Mitchell Johnson I think at one point spent months bowling with the SG ball to practice generating reverse swing, said in the press the SG ball just isnt made for it, then 20 overs into the first test Zaheer Khan had it reversing 3 meters in the air and much ridicule of Johnson followed.

And who can forget that series in South Africa where, hilariously in hindsight, Dave Warner came out to say that South Africa must be tampering the ball and cheating, because the Aussie got no reverse, but South Africa had it looping around like a paper bag in the wind.

Of course, you can take this anyway you want, but the criticisms peaked around that 2014-17 period... then Mitchell Starc and others suddenly started to find reverse to much fanfare. Then not long after they caught cheating. And then suddenly they stopped reversing it. Some coincidence that....I will go as far to say its almost certain Australia cheated for about 2 years before being caught. Not that I put much into that.... maybe their honesty in comparison to others is the reason why they cant reverse it (the art itself seems to be less prevalent as years, and scrutiny, goes on).

If you want the current take, Pat Cummins said before the India test that the Aussie's werent afraid of the Indian's reverse swing being a factor, because reverse swing is not an important part of the game in Australia, and the Aussie wont be trying specifically to do it.

[Durhamfootman]

first day washout for England's last chance to have a warm up

Perth not looking quite as certain for the 5th test because of covid restrictions

Climate change and covid restrictions...... is this series going to be completed in one go or will we end up trying to finish it off in a couple of years time rather than abandoning it to keep the broadcasters and sponsors happy? If I was a betting man, and I'm not, I'd have a fiver on England avoiding the ignomy of a 5-0 result even if they do bowl as toothlessly and bat as hopelessly as the most pessimistic of us fear

[sussexpob]

The weather suggests it will stop raining...... just as the warm up ends.

In a country where 35% of the land mass has enough rain to be technically desert, why dont they fly out to the middle of nowhere far away from Covid and play a game anywhere they can find a half serviceable strip.

[Durhamfootman]

If you took the whole of the Australian interior and divided it up into cricket ground sized circles, there would probably be a 100 different ways to die in every single one of them

that might be part of their thinking when deciding where to warm up

[bigfluffylemon]

they can find a half serviceable strip.

Therein I suspect lies the problem.

[sussexpob]

they can find a half serviceable strip.

Therein I suspect lies the problem.

Well, the idea of driving into the outback with their pads might have been tongue in cheek, but Cairns recently hosted a test in the last few years, Townsville hosts big bash games, and Australia's women regularly use Mackay's ground for international games. All of these are in Queensland and within easy reach with a flight.... and more importantly, dry according to the weather for the foreseeable future.

I am not sure that this weeks North Queensland U-17s Local Zone Preliminary Group matches in Mackay would be that hard to schedule elsewhere.

[bigfluffylemon]

they can find a half serviceable strip.

Therein I suspect lies the problem.

Well, the idea of driving into the outback with their pads might have been tongue in cheek, but Cairns recently hosted a test in the last few years, Townsville hosts big bash games, and Australia's women regularly use Mackay's ground for international games. All of these are in Queensland and within easy reach with a flight.... and more importantly, dry according to the weather for the foreseeable future.

I am not sure that this weeks North Queensland U-17s Local Zone Preliminary Group matches in Mackay would be that hard to schedule elsewhere.

Cairns is nearly a three hour flight from Brisbane, and it's monsoon season. Townsville isn't much closer. People forget just how big Australia is. I guess moving the team isn't just 11 players - it's 22 players for a warmup and all the support staff as well, so getting flights, accommodation and somewhere suitable to play isn't going to be straightforward. Plus apparently hotels in Cairns are completely full at the moment due to people quarantining from overseas arrivals, as Queensland still has 14 day mandatory quarantine.

It's doable, but given the forecast for Brisbane is clear from tomorrow, I suspect they decided it wasn't worth it.

[alfie]

first day washout for England's last chance to have a warm up

Perth not looking quite as certain for the 5th test because of covid restrictions

Climate change and covid restrictions...... is this series going to be completed in one go or will we end up trying to finish it off in a couple of years time rather than abandoning it to keep the broadcasters and sponsors happy? If I was a betting man, and I'm not, I'd have a fiver on England avoiding the ignomy of a 5-0 result even if they do bowl as toothlessly and bat as hopelessly as the most pessimistic of us fear

Does look as if the Perth Test won't happen : WA Premier digging in publicly on their restrictions. A few options being talked up here : Hobart - or even Canberra - the original suggestions but the idea of a second MCG Test , as a day/night game getting a lot of press - at least in Melbourne . Two pink ball Tests in a series bit of a revolution.

Some talk that this would be favourable to England : sounds reasonable in theory ; except for the fact that Australia has a 100% winning record in day/night Tests...

The washed out warm ups are a pain for both teams. Lot of players short of red ball - or indeed any - match practice. Though I understand the next couple of days look a bit more hopeful for the England squad game. Still getting mixed reports about the likelihood of weather hitting the Brisbane Test but it wouldn't be surprising if it copped a bit given the prevailing systems.

[bigfluffylemon]

Given the long range forecast, I think all the tests bar Adelaide are in danger of at least some rain.

Brisbane is usually the first test historically in part because of the climate - it gets too hot, humid and wet to play in the later summer. The Gabbatoir issue came later.

Can't see CA giving Canberra an Ashes test. Or even Hobart. Grounds are too small, sadly. Plus Hobart will have complications as Tassie still has travel restrictions. It'll be another Sydney or Melbourne test.

To be honest, if a second pink ball test gives England an advantage, why not? Anything that helps the touring side in Australia makes the series more interesting. Australia will still win (and as alfie points out, have a perfect record in home D/N tests...)

[yuppie]

Australia really dont want 2 pink ball games against England. Thats just stupid

[Durhamfootman]

I don't want one, let alone two

one of the sillier ideas that should be consigned to the B1N file

[bigfluffylemon]

Here's a wacky idea that doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone (and probably will get shot down immediately due to the almighty dollar), but from a cricketing perspective, why do we need a 5th test?

I know it's the Ashes and all, but how many times has the fifth Ashes test actually been relevant to the destination of the urn, especially for series in Australia? How many times does a fifth test (in any series, not just the Ashes) allow you to finally separate two closely matched sides, rather than just allow the side who was already ahead to seal the deal?

Status of 5th Ashes tests in Australia:
2017 - dead
2013 - dead
2010 - destination of the urn already decided, technically live as Australia could have obtained a drawn series but England, ahead in the series going into the test, won the match
2006 - dead
2002 - dead (consolation England victory, I guess)
1998 - destination of the urn already decided, technically live as England could have obtained a drawn series but Australia, ahead in the series going into the test, won the match
1994 - destination of the urn already decided, technically live as England could have obtained a drawn series but Australia, ahead in the series going into the test, won the match
1990 - dead
1986 - dead
1982 - Live - Australia ahead going into the test draw the match to win back the urn
1978 - dead
1974 - fifth test was technically live as it was a six match series, had it been a five match series it would have been dead
1970 - ditto

So only once in over 40 years has the fifth Ashes test in Australia actually mattered to the destination of the urn, and on the few occasions the match has been technically live, the winner has been the team that's already ahead in the series sealing the deal.

In England things are a little better - 2019 was a live game for the series result with the urn already decided. 2009 was a rare decisive fifth test and 2005 was live as well, both of those were classics that we would not want to have not happened. But 2015, 2013, 2001, 1993, 1989 were dead, and 1997 the urn destination was decided by the 4th test as well (and all the fifth test did was allow Australia to put the nail in the coffin).

I'm not saying have four test series forever. But in this unique situation in strange times, when it's going to be a challenge to put on a 5th test in a way that's fair to both sides and no-one seriously expects the series to be alive by then anyway, I do have to ask (from a cricketing, rather than a ca$h perspective) why bother?

[bigfluffylemon]

Confirmed as the wettest November on record for New South Wales, Queensland, ACT and Australia as a whole.

Not boding well for the series.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Glad there was a fifth Test in 05. But it didn't change the outcome.

Less than a week to go. Time to get in your TMS fantasy league team.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=22173

[sussexpob]

England finally get out for a game. Lions score 220-4, and all of England's specialist frontline bowling options draw a blank for the day.

Lions batters forced to retire at 20-30 runs, save for Crawley who got out in the 40s (and is the only Ashes Squad batter in the Lions team, no doubt to give him a chance to play), and England giving a shared distribution of the bowling with a couple of Lions pacers who got thrown the ball while England's actual pace options were given very limited overs.

I cant really get the thinking with that. With England's batting woes in full swing, it makes more sense to allow the top Lions prospects to bat as long as possible and stake a claim on some form and quality, because they will be needed if the batting line gets shredded in the first few games..... and surely from a bowling perspective, you (a) want your seamers having a decent go rather than just one long spell/two short ones.... and you also want them bowing at batsman playing well as a challenge, because they are going to have to get used to facing set batsman on these pitches and working out how to bowl to them.

If you didnt want a challenge or the Lions getting a decent go, nor the bowlers bowling anything worthwhile, why didnt they just get the England batting line up play vs the Lions bowlers, with a few spells thrown in for the frontline test players?

Its not like the way they have done it has any FC integrity or mimicks the pressure of a proper match.... if you are forcing people to retire after 20 runs and one team uses 8 bowlers, it aint anything more than a glorified net session anyway