India in England Aug-Sep 2021 (& July 2022)

[Arthur Crabtree]

There's a draw to fight for. Woakes and Root can dig in.

[sussexpob]

5/27 in this series of overs.

[Arthur Crabtree]

There goes Root.

Still a couple of batters left. At least try and drag it out.

[sussexpob]

Wales goes and into the proper tail now. This is miracle street.

70/8 odd for the session. Rubbish

[Arthur Crabtree]

England's batting this year. Root is double the next best (minimum 4 innings).

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... pe=batting

Root has six tons, Burns has one, then nothing.

At least Lara had Shiv!

[Arthur Crabtree]

Got a feeling there might be some changes. The old timers:

Bairstow, one fifty in 15 innings, no tons.

Buttler, one fity in ten innings, no ton.

Moeen no fifty/ton in ten innings.

[mikesiva]

Wow, aside from Hameed, Burns and Root, the batting caved in this innings.

[mikesiva]

England 210 all out.

India take a 2-1 lead.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Wow, aside from Hameed, Burns and Root, the batting caved in this innings.

Woakes lasted an hour and a half, which was at least some resistance. Not much else.

Pretty efficient from India today, well done to them. Going to get at least a draw from the series.

Root doesn't make runs= England lose.

[bigfluffylemon]

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but even after 120-1 I'm not. This England side can't handle pressure.

Anything can happen at Old Trafford, but you'd expect India to take a well deserved series victory. Winning in England and Australia really will put beyond doubt that they are the best Indian side ever.

[alfie]

The last couple of days India completed what they actually started in the last session on day one : a wonderful fightback from being 127/7 after being sent in. A lot of people kidded themselves that England remained on top because they eventually secured a 99 run lead : but in truth once they slumped to 62/5 in reply the game was never more than a wicket or a partnership away from even one way or the other. And India took it right away with a fine exhibition of Test Match batting throughout days three and four - helpfully exhausting England's main bowlers for the next match in the process

Could hardly have gone better for them. If they don't complete a 3-1 series win now I reckon they'll be kicking themselves.

A lot of things we can pick on that England did wrong. But essentially this Indian team is a superior outfit , even in English conditions ; and the home team has arguably done well to be still in contention to draw the series if they can somehow manufacture a win next week. In fairness I suspect things might have been a bit different had England had access to Broad and Archer - and even more importantly Stokes - for the series. But injuries are a fact of life and this is where we are at present.

Not a lot England can do to change personnel for Manchester. Batting (despite some promising signs from the new opening pair) remains overly Root-dependant ; but it is what it is. Have at least managed a few scores of approx 300 or more so can be described as "battling" rather than rubbish. Better hope the bowlers - or some of them - can recover from their exertions by Friday because again Wood and probably Leach are the only viable add-ons. And perhaps it will be a day or two when the vital catches stick...

We can hope.

[bigfluffylemon]

I've said it before in this thread, but I will repeat this England team is incapable of winning the big moments under pressure. So often they get themselves into a decent position in a match, only for them to lose the initiative and fail to keep up the pressure as they allow the other side back into the game.

Look at this match. India 127-7, then England let them score another 60. England get about 100 runs short of par on a good batting surface. When India are batting, 312-6 with a lead of around 200 - England can get a chasable target if they dismiss the tail quickly, and India go on to add 150 for the last 4 wickets, including two batters with an average under 5 (again). England are 120-1 in the final innings, and 131-2 at lunch, with a chance of at least saving the game, if not chasing the target, and fold for 80 runs for the last 8 wickets. Win any of those key moments on days 1-4 and India are out of the game, but England allowed them to fight back every time.

Of course when you drop 6 catches you don't win many games.

[sussexpob]

My frustration with England can be summed up watching Rohit Sharma over the spread of matches in both home and away series vs India. This is a 34-35 year old guy who has been lamented for his inability to play test cricket, cant play movement, no hoper etc,etc,etc. He top scored in a series that had very rare low scores in India, including scoring about 100 runs being dismissed once at Ahmedabad where in 4 innings, the top innings score from both sides was 130 ish by memory..... he then comes to England and averages a run or two under 50 in conditions that have been tough for openers in both series v NZ/ENG, two teams with favourable bowling assets to exploit these conditions. His SR has been in the low 40s.

If India can get Rohit Sharma finally looking like a quality test match in tough conditions and curbing his instincts to attack all the time, showing grit, patience and technique on his way to playing his part, then why can England not seemingly do this with a single batsman in years on end? What are England's coaching staff doing, or not doing, that India are?

I get the feeling its more of a mentality than anything; Shastri and Kohli simply wouldnt put up with the constant rubbish that England seem to do. I get the feeling England are happy to accept mediocrity.

[sussexpob]

I guess we are back to the 1990s arent we? That stage where everyone involved with the team sort of accepts that our team is terrible, but rather than do something about it they just pick the same underwhelming failures because they are seen as slightly better failures than any alternatives - that worked well didnt it? I seem to remember constantly sending out under-par rubbish ended with us being ranked the worst team in the world in 1999. It shows how just accepting your mediocrity isnt a great strategy - another coach embraced changes, found a team of rejects that worked well, and the rest is history.

Sometimes results arent as important as methodology. If England were to drop 6 batters and replace them with worse players, it doesnt mean the plan itself isnt the correct one - we are not a good enough team to beat an above average team at the moment consistently. Picking this line up is an acceptance that you are happy with that reality. England cricket is better than this reality, it has to start acting like it.

There doesnt seem a great methodology to anything though. You can almost predict that if Malan fails, its going to be Crawley thrown in to replace him. Buttler will come back. I wouldnt be surprised if Jennings and Stoneman's test careers will be given another opportunity. Bairstow might be dropped soon, but you just know he will return at some point without any justification.

For me, Bracey's 2 test run is indicative of the total lack of a plan. If you pick a guy to be the future and entrust him with a role, then how can you replace him after 2 tests? How can you then replace him with another keeper who has averaged 18 in his last 10 tests? If 2 tests vs the number 1 team in the world is enough in your mind to say an average keeper with zero form is better, than what gave you the belief in him in the first place? I guess the truth was, none of the coaching staff had any belief in him. Then neither made any technical analysis of him nor really knew what made him good.

And then you ask, what has Ben Foakes done to deserve his lot? 8 tests in 3-4 years despite keeping excellently and despite showing promise with the bat. How can he not be as good as Bairstow right now? What is such a conclusion based on considering Foakes performances have been better than Jonny in the same time?

And then we come to Moeen. Near 50 runs a wicket in this series and nothing with the bat (average just above 10) - when he inevitably gets dropped soon, who do they bring in? Dom Bess who they said wasnt good enough despite averaging 26 this year in tests per wicket? Jack Leach, who's career record is very good, but who was recently playing against Cornwall in a minor county game while England were playing tests? Imagine how damaging it is to basically be constantly replaced by inferior players while your record in the team is good. After being treated like dirt, he will probably fail once or twice and be told once again he just didnt have it.

Graeme Swann is seen as the only world class spinner England has had in the modern age - his wicket average is to the nearest decimal hundred is identical to Leach. Literally identical. And yet Swann would walk into England's best XI from the last 40-50 years, and Leach cant even get in a mediocre side consistently. 15 odd tests in 4 years. What is the thinking here? Leach should be among the first names on the team sheet.

But he isnt. He hasnt played a home test since the last Ashes series - he averaged 28 in that series, his only one in England. He also helped bat out a test that saved England's series. How can he be dropped for that? Its madness.

[sussexpob]

And its not like we dont know the majority of this team now. There are few question marks about these players in the batting line up. I dont really know what Silverwood and his scouting teams are thinking; I mean, is the thinking that these players who are under-performing can elevate their game, and if so, what is that based on when the reality suggests otherwise? Or is it the fact, and I think its personally this, that the team management have sort of accepted that batsman averaging high 20s to very low 30s is enough. Neither is very comforting.

Take Burns. He has played 30 test matches now. He's had a run. Hes 31 and at his peak. He came from good form in the championship this year - average of 26 this series. Much was made about his work to the short ball paying off from the winter, but did he ever have a problem with the short ball? If so, I must be watching an alternative reality because to me, he cant defend his stumps to balls coming into him, and he constantly looses his offstump when the ball goes away. At 31, he isnt going to improve that, and doubly so when his batting stance and technique is totally based on eye dominance and the fact he cant see out of one eye well and has to take that technique to see the ball. He cant change that stance - it is what it is. And Burns has been restrained. This isnt a problem with will, he wants to be gritty - its his technique that lets him down.

In fact, the whole fallacy of England not being good under pressure or not showing application is long disproved - maybe under Bayliss England were aggressive, but under Silverwood they are not - most batters want to bat patiently, and set out to bat well - they just cant. They dont have the ability. Its hard to accept that sometimes, but thats the reality. These players are simply not good enough to survive long enough regardless of how much they try and stick in - Bayliss may have been right. Maybe he realised each player had a limited lifespan, and they may as well slog a few and get something in that 50 balls at the crease, rather than go nowhere.

You look at the others in the team ....

Hameed is a question mark. A really up and down series so far, but there is potential there with two strong innings. There is also real warning signs, with 3 ducks in 5 .... one being one of the most horrendous dismissals I have ever seen from a top 3 batter. He's there, I didnt agree with that, but he needs a run now. 10-15 tests (assuming he can make the most basic of returns to justify that length) to once and for all assess him as a cricketer.

Crawley - Just cant defend. I imagine he makes an Ashes squad and plays at some stage in that series, but he wont justify it. If he has a future, it is in 2 years time after he has proved he can score big runs.

Bairstow - Bats like a number 8 now. Average of 20 in his last 20 odd test - after nearly 80 tests in total, what is left to learn? He had one good consistent year, and for the rest he has been not good enough. Let him bugger off to the IPL and the other big money leagues, his test career is dead.

Malan - Interestingly his own test of note was at Perth, which was also one of the last times Bairstow looked a capable test bat - I guess the conclusion is the pitch was a total pancake (Australia made near 700 odd declared with half an innings left by memory, so yes, a total pancake). He had a decent run in OZ, but the key was Australia set out to bounce England out with pace and short stuff. While at times he was very lucky in that series, top edging hooks and pulls, and early in that Perth test he could have been out several times, but what Malan does well is play off the back foot, especially into the off side. When Australia pitched it up to him, it looked a different story, although they didnt do it enough. Other teams have, and frankly to fuller lengths he's been utterly rubbish most of the time.

Pope - I have said time and time again that Pope looks a quality player, but that he's is abnormally rusty when first at the crease. At the moment its been very up and down, but I am inclined to believe there is a lot of talent to come out of him, and he needs to be stuck with.

Moeen - Gone

Stokes - Walks back into this team even if he has a car crash and loses both arms. I wonder, however, if he will be back and whether or not his issues with health will mean we get the same player.

Buttler - No mystery left for me. I said in 2019 on paper he looked good, but he got very lucky. The luck run out, and with it so did the runs. He isnt a disaster keeper option for the team, but as a batter alone he cant be in the team. If Bairstow goes, then maybe Buttler at 7 works with the gloves - but I think Foakes deserves that spot.

Sibley - I salute his determination, but he's not good enough technically. Started finding very special ways to get out recently. 22 tests - we dont need more.

Jennings/Stoneman/Other similar picked players - See Sibley